2019 Toyota Avalon
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,472
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
In general, it's not, despite the many references and comparisons in this thread's posts. VW has never marketed a direct competitor to the Avalon in the U.S. The Passat is essentially a Camry competitor. The CC version of the Passat probably comes closest to the Avalon, but I would not consider it a direct competitor. And VW's large, full-size 8 and 12-cylinder Phaeton luxury car (when it was marketed here) competed more with the Lexus LS than the Avalon.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
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this made me lol 
good points.
yes, i think i see what you mean in that i think americans tend to expect compact cars to be cheap, not "near premium".
i hadn't really looked at the c-hr beyond not caring for the exterior shots i'd seen, but now i just read edmunds review. besides a pretty decent list of standard equipment across just 2 trim levels, they were pretty unimpressed, especially with the gutless engine.
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/c-hr/2018/review/
but toyota, like all brands, like you say, will build vehicles for either specific large markets or for other big chunks of the world, it's basically impossible to please all parts of the world with any one vehicle in large volumes.
back to the new avalon, i've concluded it's actually a pretty nice car except for the front end and the odd 'ski slope' center stack but then the current avalon interior also has a bit of an unconventional dash. if the ride is great, it will probably do just fine despite the front.
good points.
yes, i think i see what you mean in that i think americans tend to expect compact cars to be cheap, not "near premium".
i hadn't really looked at the c-hr beyond not caring for the exterior shots i'd seen, but now i just read edmunds review. besides a pretty decent list of standard equipment across just 2 trim levels, they were pretty unimpressed, especially with the gutless engine.
https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/c-hr/2018/review/
but toyota, like all brands, like you say, will build vehicles for either specific large markets or for other big chunks of the world, it's basically impossible to please all parts of the world with any one vehicle in large volumes.
back to the new avalon, i've concluded it's actually a pretty nice car except for the front end and the odd 'ski slope' center stack but then the current avalon interior also has a bit of an unconventional dash. if the ride is great, it will probably do just fine despite the front.
And this Avalon is similar in many ways... it has premium interior, it has expensive suspension options from Lexus. I also think that grille wont be that noticable in real life. In general, C-HR is stylish without having to have huge grille but it loses in practicality (which is crucial in US market)... while Europeans prefer style first and everything else 2nd... and there we have C-HR being one of the best sellers, without having a diesel!
Driver
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 61
Likes: 7
From: TEXAS
Did anyone see this in the press release? “Toyota extended the rear cabin by seven inches to boost rear passenger space”Is this for real? Seems like a huge space bump if true.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 640
Likes: 92
From: Colorado
I agree that the Avalon grille is horrendous. The previous model was not much better but I took a pass in 2014 ( and bought the Lexus ES300h) because I didn't like the Avalon dash and instrumentation design. I do like the update for the new generation Avalon but the new grille would be a deal breaker.
Could not agree more. That is exactly the reason I went with the ES over Avalon in '14.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,397
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From: CN
I'm surprised why everyone seems surprised by the new Avalon. The huge grille is an evolution of the already large grilles on the Lexus ES and the Toyota Crown. I think the car has a muscular side profile and would look better in lighter colors like white and silver. The interior's ski ramp center console isn't new either, Volvo has been using a similar design for years and it's both minimalist and pretty. It's funny that Toyota used to get slammed for boring designs and now they get slammed for edgy, polarizing styling. Can't win 'em all 
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,300
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From: RightHere
Some interesting thoughts on future design and why we're talking about this.
Source
As recently as 2015, midsize sedans were still the largest segment of the American vehicle market. Back then, cars commanded more than half of the nation's sales. When the tallying was complete in 2017, the midsize sedan was the fifth-most-popular segment. The top three were all trucks: Compact SUVs, midsize SUVs, and large pickups. Cars made up only one-third of overall sales, and their sales were down 11 percent over 2016.
It is into this mire that Volkswagen and Toyota have just introduced their latest sedans. For VW, it's an all-new version of its American bestseller, the Jetta. For Toyota, a fresh take on its flagship, the full-size Avalon. What are their hopes for these vehicles, whose sales were down 5 and 30 percent last year, respectively, but whose latest iterations generated interest at the show and a lot of interest among Autoblog readers?
It is into this mire that Volkswagen and Toyota have just introduced their latest sedans. For VW, it's an all-new version of its American bestseller, the Jetta. For Toyota, a fresh take on its flagship, the full-size Avalon. What are their hopes for these vehicles, whose sales were down 5 and 30 percent last year, respectively, but whose latest iterations generated interest at the show and a lot of interest among Autoblog readers?
"From a sedan point of view, students are only interested in doing German-style front-engine, rear-drive sedans," says Paul Snyder, automotive design dean at Detroit's prestigious Center for Creative Studies. "No one is interested in doing something basic like a Malibu. And the domestic manufacturers seem to almost be giving up that fight. I've heard that even Ford has put a hold on development of the next Fusion."We are not sure what this means for the sedan as a category. The Jetta looks a bit like an anodyne concept for a Corolla. The Avalon looks like an advance design concept for an old Lexus. Neither feels particularly au courant or contemporary in an essential way."
As we move toward an even more rational, less emotional connection with cars as pure transportation — especially given our alleged self-driving future — it seems possible that exterior design becomes less prominent as an influence. For example, at CES last week, Toyota's big reveal was essentially a self-driving box on wheels that could be used for practically anything from transportation to retail.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,474
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From: ON/NY
I think the Avalon's front end has done what it was intended to do. Lots of responses and reactions since the launch. You are right, they did get slammed in the past, not anymore.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,300
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From: RightHere
Another take on it.
Source
This grille is simply massive. It stretches between the ends of the bumper like one of those giant rubber dam things that dentists use for root canals. The whole front end of the car is basically grille. Don’t get me wrong – I’ll take a strikingly assertive, arguably ugly design over something boring any day of the week.
But I can’t help but take a step back and shake my head when I see this thing, like I just walked into the world’s biggest ball of twine or something. I mean, what the hell is the point. Granted, the styling actually does its job, as it certainly makes the Toyota stand out from the crowd. Indeed, just one glance is more than enough to confirm the car’s origin. However, I’m worried scientists will start pointing their telescopes at it thinking they just discovered a new black hole.
But I can’t help but take a step back and shake my head when I see this thing, like I just walked into the world’s biggest ball of twine or something. I mean, what the hell is the point. Granted, the styling actually does its job, as it certainly makes the Toyota stand out from the crowd. Indeed, just one glance is more than enough to confirm the car’s origin. However, I’m worried scientists will start pointing their telescopes at it thinking they just discovered a new black hole.
Another take on it.
Source
Source
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,727
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From: Ca
Overall, I think the Avalon's styling is okay, especially because we must remember that Highlander must look less stylish than RX, while Avalon must look less stylish than the forthcoming ES.
The standard new Avalon is especially okay, and very few people will purchase the Avalon Touring with that huge mouth.
In any case, styling is not the Japanese's forte anyway; the Japanese forte is more like attention to detail, refinement, durability and reliability etc.
Styling probably belongs to the Italians and the German, who tend to produce more consistent styling results.
They know how to strike a balance between conservatism and radicalism, and yet still come up with a stylish product.
Some years ago, the VW AG purchased Italdesign studios.
http://www.italdesign.it/project/gs-300-aristo/
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The standard new Avalon is especially okay, and very few people will purchase the Avalon Touring with that huge mouth.
In any case, styling is not the Japanese's forte anyway; the Japanese forte is more like attention to detail, refinement, durability and reliability etc.
Styling probably belongs to the Italians and the German, who tend to produce more consistent styling results.
They know how to strike a balance between conservatism and radicalism, and yet still come up with a stylish product.
Some years ago, the VW AG purchased Italdesign studios.
http://www.italdesign.it/project/gs-300-aristo/
.
Last edited by peteharvey; Jan 20, 2018 at 06:48 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,300
Likes: 4
From: RightHere
The Avalon is Toyota's solution to a problem. Your buyer group is postively ancient and loves these cars. But they're not the ones who you would like to appeal to, and so you have to get edgy. When Mercedes introduced the CLS, it too was met with some strong opinions. The concept of a four door coupe is now established - it means you give up a lot of the formality of a luxury sedan and cater to the idea of a tech-filled sedan that looks like it came out of a Fast n Furious movie.
This is the reality. Two door coupes are not practical, so you make a four door coupe. Problem is, you have a boring reputation and the only way to make people pay attention is to get ridonculous on the disco dance karioke floor and go nuts. That's what the Avalon is trying to do.
This is the reality. Two door coupes are not practical, so you make a four door coupe. Problem is, you have a boring reputation and the only way to make people pay attention is to get ridonculous on the disco dance karioke floor and go nuts. That's what the Avalon is trying to do.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,472
Likes: 252
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
The Avalon is Toyota's solution to a problem. Your buyer group is postively ancient and loves these cars. But they're not the ones who you would like to appeal to, and so you have to get edgy. When Mercedes introduced the CLS, it too was met with some strong opinions. The concept of a four door coupe is now established - it means you give up a lot of the formality of a luxury sedan and cater to the idea of a tech-filled sedan that looks like it came out of a Fast n Furious movie.
This is the reality. Two door coupes are not practical, so you make a four door coupe. Problem is, you have a boring reputation and the only way to make people pay attention is to get ridonculous on the disco dance karioke floor and go nuts. That's what the Avalon is trying to do.
This is the reality. Two door coupes are not practical, so you make a four door coupe. Problem is, you have a boring reputation and the only way to make people pay attention is to get ridonculous on the disco dance karioke floor and go nuts. That's what the Avalon is trying to do.
Today, unfortunately, not much.