View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 6
From: TX
History is no indicator of future. That said, my opinion fwiw is that tiers are made up of vehicles that are cross shopped or in some cases a particular brand is the only one making up that tier.
As far as Lexus, MB and BMW are concerned, my experience with people who own them are that they want to look down upon the other. Lexus owners look down upon MB& BMW for history of poor reliability in the last decade and half. MB owners look down upon Lexus as a copy cat trying to beat MB. BMW owners are snobs in that just don't want to look at anything else.
I don't know what it says about me as I happen to own all three brands right now
As far as Lexus, MB and BMW are concerned, my experience with people who own them are that they want to look down upon the other. Lexus owners look down upon MB& BMW for history of poor reliability in the last decade and half. MB owners look down upon Lexus as a copy cat trying to beat MB. BMW owners are snobs in that just don't want to look at anything else.
I don't know what it says about me as I happen to own all three brands right now
Pole Position
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: IL
Some people who can easily afford Tier 1 (defined by some as the German triad of MB, BMW, Audi/Porsche...though I would include Lexus in that category) make a conscious decision to buy Tier 2 vehicles because they prefer understatement over what may be viewed by others as "conspicuous consumption". This behavior is also a form of proactive defense..i.e..to avoid being a target of wealth-seeking opportunists. Or it's just simply living below one's means.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,874
Likes: 3
From: Canuckistan
The issue is that its meaningless. Consumers are looking at what is in their range, and unless they are really brand loyal (like I am, for instance) what matters to them most is the product and the value proposition. People do cross shop Lexus, MB and BMWs with Audis, Infinitis, Cadillacs, Acuras...and yes Jeeps and Hyundais and Buicks...and they make a decision to buy cars from the "tier 2" brands and even mainstream brands over "tier 1" brands every day.
As far as prestige, I live in a very affluent area, have owned a Lexus for many years and have interacted with people a lot wealthier and more brand conscious than me for a long time. There is no question in my mind that when it comes to brand prestige Lexus is still at a disadvantage compared to Mercedes and BMW.
I know a guy who just traded a C300 in on a GS350. Now the GS is a class above the C, $20,000 more. People would make comments about his C300 and its cost, etc all the time, nobody says a word about his GS.
Thats been my experience too. Very few times have I ever met somebody who reacted to or was impressed by my Lexus. Be it the ES, GS or the LS.
As far as prestige, I live in a very affluent area, have owned a Lexus for many years and have interacted with people a lot wealthier and more brand conscious than me for a long time. There is no question in my mind that when it comes to brand prestige Lexus is still at a disadvantage compared to Mercedes and BMW.
I know a guy who just traded a C300 in on a GS350. Now the GS is a class above the C, $20,000 more. People would make comments about his C300 and its cost, etc all the time, nobody says a word about his GS.
Thats been my experience too. Very few times have I ever met somebody who reacted to or was impressed by my Lexus. Be it the ES, GS or the LS.
Mercedes
BMW
Lexus
Tier 2 is:
Audi
Cadillac
Infiniti
Tier 3 is:
Acura
Lincoln
Buick
Other lux brands like Jaguar, Volvo etc... are too niche and their volume too small and irrelevant to warrant classification.
The higher up you go in price, the less likely cross shopping between tiers happens. People are more likely to cross shop between tiers at the entry level. But even at the entry level, higher tier brands usually win in volume vs. lower tier brands.
Also people seem to have short memories, Lexus just a few short years ago was on top of the world as far as both volume and prestige was concerned. The LS only lost its #1 best selling flagship sedan title to the S-class in 2011. They've slipped in the face of ageing models and freshly resurgent Germans, but they are positioned to gain much of that back in the coming few years.
I think the new Lexus LX stands to do very well and there isn't even a proper competitor for it from BMW.
It will be a litmus test for sure.
Last edited by Mr. Burns; Oct 15, 2015 at 07:09 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 17,190
Likes: 530
From: Knoxville, TN
I wish I could say otherwise, but I don't think Lexus is tier 1 either, at least not anymore.
The brand was, for sure, IMO, back in the 90s bc everyone was just blown away by them. Everyone wanted a Lexus. I remember when the old LS400 was virtually every other car on the road.
The brand was, for sure, IMO, back in the 90s bc everyone was just blown away by them. Everyone wanted a Lexus. I remember when the old LS400 was virtually every other car on the road.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 6
From: TX
Pit Crew
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 129
Likes: 12
From: NY
Tier 1 would include Porsche, MB, Audi, BMW. Lexus is Tier 2 and is not making moves to move up, the vast majority of their sales (ES, RX, NX) are rehashed Toyota FWD platforms and should not be considered as true luxury vehicles. I would say that in the current state Cadillac is a bit closer to tier 1 than Lexus...and they are moving in the right direction.
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,763
Likes: 6
From: TX
Tier 1 would include Porsche, MB, Audi, BMW. Lexus is Tier 2 and is not making moves to move up, the vast majority of their sales (ES, RX, NX) are rehashed Toyota FWD platforms and should not be considered as true luxury vehicles. I would say that in the current state Cadillac is a bit closer to tier 1 than Lexus...and they are moving in the right direction.
Pit Crew
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 129
Likes: 12
From: NY
It's not meaningless ideology...a FR platform with longitudinal engine allows for better handling, and better performance. They will have a better weight distribution which allows for better handling and braking, and they have a smaller turning radius. Ride quality is also inproved due to the better weight distribution.
This is the reason that all proper luxury vehicles (which includes the GS, RC, LS for the fanboys) are this type of layout. The only benefit to going FF is cost savings.
This is the reason that all proper luxury vehicles (which includes the GS, RC, LS for the fanboys) are this type of layout. The only benefit to going FF is cost savings.
Pole Position
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: IL
Tier 1 would include Porsche, MB, Audi, BMW. Lexus is Tier 2 and is not making moves to move up, the vast majority of their sales (ES, RX, NX) are rehashed Toyota FWD platforms and should not be considered as true luxury vehicles. I would say that in the current state Cadillac is a bit closer to tier 1 than Lexus...and they are moving in the right direction.
Pole Position
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: IL
It's not meaningless ideology...a FR platform with longitudinal engine allows for better handling, and better performance. They will have a better weight distribution which allows for better handling and braking, and they have a smaller turning radius. Ride quality is also inproved due to the better weight distribution.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,874
Likes: 3
From: Canuckistan
Tier 1 would include Porsche, MB, Audi, BMW. Lexus is Tier 2 and is not making moves to move up, the vast majority of their sales (ES, RX, NX) are rehashed Toyota FWD platforms and should not be considered as true luxury vehicles. I would say that in the current state Cadillac is a bit closer to tier 1 than Lexus...and they are moving in the right direction.
And FYI ALL of Audi's cars are FWD based, not that that has much weight in the tier system.
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 88
Likes: 5
From: oh
The 2000 and earlier LS's were ground breaking
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
The 2000 and earlier LS's were ground breaking
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
Seems like all of the future plans for the LS are made by product planners who don't and won't own one.
Appears it's only the lexus dealers who contact the customer - to the point of annoyance....
The 2000 and earlier LS's were ground breaking
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
The 2000 and earlier LS's were ground breaking
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
The 2000 and earlier LS's were ground breaking
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
Clearly an outstanding value.
Since then, not much major progress
MB has clearly surpassed the LS in terms of all around luxury car performance w/ the current S550
(drive one, you'll know in an instant)
Yes, reliability is good, but it's only a part of why someone buys a car
We know the 2017 will have more HP, but is that what is going to open people's checkbooks?
For me, it's not more HP or lower profile tires (not good for potholes)
I have a few ideas on what would make me trade in my 09, what are yours?
Also curious, any current owners contacted on what they want?
No one is more likely to buy/offer opinions on your product than a former customer...
Yes, I've heard Hydrogen. I suspect not many of us want to go back for service for the techs to learn hydrogen tech on our time.
The new BMW 7 Series design certainly doesn't break any ground
I can see why folks with $ would go for the S 550. I suspect BMW fans are mainly entranced by the grill
Last edited by DaveGS4; Oct 19, 2015 at 07:51 PM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 4
From: Sacramento, CA
Doesn't sound like anyone on the site has been contacted by Lexus asking how they like their car or what changes they would like to see.
Seems like all of the future plans for the LS are made by product planners who don't and won't own one.
Appears it's only the lexus dealers who contact the customer - to the point of annoyance....
Seems like all of the future plans for the LS are made by product planners who don't and won't own one.
Appears it's only the lexus dealers who contact the customer - to the point of annoyance....