Notices
Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Innova

Roll back emission standards

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 7, 2025 | 05:16 PM
  #91  
Toys4RJill's Avatar
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
10 Year Member
Community Builder
Active Streak: 30 Days
Liked
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,276
Likes: 305
From: ON/NY
Default

Originally Posted by SW17LS
This is just not true.
it was really the UAW workers…then went on strike at the GM and Ford plants that were making sedans.

Old Dec 7, 2025 | 05:19 PM
  #92  
SW17LS's Avatar
SW17LS
Lexus Fanatic
Active Streak: 60 Days
Loved
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 67,924
Likes: 3,841
From: Maryland
Default

HAHA, right
Old Dec 7, 2025 | 06:53 PM
  #93  
LeX2K's Avatar
LeX2K
Lexus Fanatic
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,911
Likes: 4,269
From: Alberta
Default

I think we will all agree that safety versus freedom is always a balancing act. I am certain without the likes of Ralph Nader we would still be driving death traps. And I'm no fan of the guy. Let's put it this way, the best vehicles are fast, efficient, and safe. The downside may be price for some. So do people want bare bones trucks on the road with no safety equipment at all? Should that be legal? And when they crash leaving people maimed, disfigured and disabled who pays?
Old Dec 7, 2025 | 08:17 PM
  #94  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,208
Likes: 220
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by LeX2K
I think we will all agree that safety versus freedom is always a balancing act. I am certain without the likes of Ralph Nader we would still be driving death traps.
I've read Nader's famous book Unsafe at Any Speed.....It is part of my automotive library. In it, he was right on about the Corvair and its numerous design-goofs...especially the early versions before 1964 or so. On other issues, he was partly-correct and partly-overdid it...on things like undersized wheels/tires, cost-cutting, and corruption in the corporate-ladders of automakers.

And, of course, also consider that some of the most risky and dangerous vehicles to come out of Detroit came out several years AFTER Nader published his book....the 1971 Ford Pinto and its notorious rear-impact/exploding gas tanks, the Chevy Vega of the same vintage with its notorious self-destructing engine and body/component-rust so bad that frame-strength was compromised, AMC vehicles in the late 60s with archaic vacuum-operated windshield wipers that jerked back and forth and worked only when they decided to work, Chrysler products of the time with non-power drum brakes that faded and started to lose effectiveness after just a couple of pedal-pushes, and grossly-over-engined muscle-cars from most of the manufacturers that could run like hell on the drag strip but couldn't safely do anything else...handle, turn, respond to the wheel, or stop in a reasonable distance...only a few Ford/Mercury products had really excellent brakes back then.

Last edited by mmarshall; Dec 7, 2025 at 08:19 PM.
Old Dec 7, 2025 | 10:59 PM
  #95  
Framestead's Avatar
Framestead
Instructor
Photogenic
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 1,159
Likes: 256
Default

Originally Posted by SW17LS
This is just not true.
How so?
Old Dec 7, 2025 | 11:09 PM
  #96  
Framestead's Avatar
Framestead
Instructor
Photogenic
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 1,159
Likes: 256
Default

Originally Posted by LeX2K
I think we will all agree that safety versus freedom is always a balancing act. I am certain without the likes of Ralph Nader we would still be driving death traps. And I'm no fan of the guy. Let's put it this way, the best vehicles are fast, efficient, and safe. The downside may be price for some. So do people want bare bones trucks on the road with no safety equipment at all? Should that be legal? And when they crash leaving people maimed, disfigured and disabled who pays?
I want skilled engineers to take the helm of car companies once more, rather than marketing experts or legal strategists who simply exploit loopholes in regulations meant to enhance our quality of life. It’s time to throw out the playbook, push out the yes-men and women, and turn a new chapter. Let’s challenge what’s deemed impossible and invest real R&D resources into improving combustion engines. Let’s see if they can coexist and thrive alongside BEVs, HEVs, PHEVs, and EREVs.

Let the best product speak for itself.
Old Dec 7, 2025 | 11:17 PM
  #97  
LeX2K's Avatar
LeX2K
Lexus Fanatic
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,911
Likes: 4,269
From: Alberta
Default

Originally Posted by Framestead
Let’s challenge what’s deemed impossible and invest real R&D resources into improving combustion engines.
We have already reached the near limit of ICE thermal efficiency no amount of R&D will change physics.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 07:19 AM
  #98  
ChattanoogaPhil's Avatar
ChattanoogaPhil
Instructor
Photogenic
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Jul 2025
Posts: 906
Likes: 137
Default

Originally Posted by LeX2K
So do people want bare bones trucks on the road with no safety equipment at all? Should that be legal? And when they crash leaving people maimed, disfigured and disabled who pays?
Consumers should be free to make informed decisions, including those related to safety. Some individuals choose to ride motorcycles, which are significantly more hazardous than even the least equipped autos on the road. Conversely, some choose new autos with safety features surpassing many modern vehicles on the road.

Specifically, I would not object to the window sticker on a new vehicle displaying: This vehicle is not equipped with airbags, ABS, tire pressure monitors, electronic stability control, back up camera... and so on.Nor would I object to a new vehicle on the same car lot displaying a window sticker listing any and all safety features.

Automobile and health insurance companies should be free to adjust premiums based on calculated risk.



Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; Dec 8, 2025 at 08:44 AM.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 07:26 AM
  #99  
Toys4RJill's Avatar
Toys4RJill
Lexus Fanatic
10 Year Member
Community Builder
Active Streak: 30 Days
Liked
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,276
Likes: 305
From: ON/NY
Default

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil
.

Specifically, I would not object to the window sticker on a new vehicle displaying: This vehicle is not equipped with airbags, ABS, tire pressure monitors, electronic stability control, back up camera... and so on.Nor would I object to a new vehicle on the same car lot displaying a window sticker listing any and all safety features.
.
don’t forget removal of seatbelts

Last edited by Toys4RJill; Dec 8, 2025 at 08:39 AM.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 07:36 AM
  #100  
bitkahuna's Avatar
bitkahuna
CL Community Team
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 80,378
Likes: 3,780
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
You're right. 57 years of driving, reviewing, writing, shopping, auto shows, doing some of my own work, and test-drives have taught me absolutely nothing LOL.

I'm out of this discussion. Have a nice evening.
ignore self-appointed arbiters of 'truth' and claims of what some undefined 'we' want.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 08:09 AM
  #101  
tex2670's Avatar
tex2670
Lexus Champion
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Community Builder
Liked
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,988
Likes: 81
From: Southeastern PA
Default

Originally Posted by SW17LS
Please list some ways in which they are not as strict in Europe as they are here. Really the only area is when it comes to diesels, and in the US we have very few diesels.
In the 1980s and 90s, there was a "Gray Market" that existed to import cars (or versions of cars) from Europe that weren't available in the US due to our stricter regulations.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 11:12 AM
  #102  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,208
Likes: 220
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by tex2670
In the 1980s and 90s, there was a "Gray Market" that existed to import cars (or versions of cars) from Europe that weren't available in the US due to our stricter regulations.
You are correct.....but, at the same time, Gray-market vehicles could also be a pain in the a** to import because of the massive amount of paperwork, exemptions, and red-tape involved.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 11:56 AM
  #103  
4TehNguyen's Avatar
4TehNguyen
Lexus Fanatic
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 26,199
Likes: 70
From: Houston, Texas
Default

Originally Posted by Toys4RJill
The irony is that rolling back EPA standards effectively increases consumer US fuel consumption and further sets the US industry back from an innovative POV….

The United States should have the strictest emissions goals out of any country in the world.
then say goodbye to vehicle choice any fun, desireable, and reliable vehicles.

Last edited by 4TehNguyen; Dec 8, 2025 at 11:58 AM.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 12:16 PM
  #104  
swajames's Avatar
swajames
Lead Lap
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,872
Likes: 1,476
From: San Diego, CA
Default

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil
Consumers should be free to make informed decisions, including those related to safety. Some individuals choose to ride motorcycles, which are significantly more hazardous than even the least equipped autos on the road. Conversely, some choose new autos with safety features surpassing many modern vehicles on the road.

Specifically, I would not object to the window sticker on a new vehicle displaying: This vehicle is not equipped with airbags, ABS, tire pressure monitors, electronic stability control, back up camera... and so on.Nor would I object to a new vehicle on the same car lot displaying a window sticker listing any and all safety features.

Automobile and health insurance companies should be free to adjust premiums based on calculated risk.
Originally Posted by Toys4RJill
don’t forget removal of seatbelts
But this goes beyond personal freedom and the personal choice to behave irrationally, because the removal of safety devices like these wouldn't just impact the individual who might choose to forgo them. A car without these safety features is a car more likely to cause harm to others. Sometimes regulations are necessary to protect the stupid, and this would be one of those cases.

Last edited by swajames; Dec 8, 2025 at 12:18 PM.
Old Dec 8, 2025 | 01:06 PM
  #105  
SW17LS's Avatar
SW17LS
Lexus Fanatic
Active Streak: 60 Days
Loved
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 67,924
Likes: 3,841
From: Maryland
Default

Originally Posted by Framestead
How so?
Sedan sales are absolutely softer and becoming softer due to demand, not engineered limitation of options. All you have to do is look at sales figures, if you limited options and the demand was there for sedans, the remaining sedans would have big increases in sales and thats not what we are seeing. Sedan sales have been slipping for a very long time.

Originally Posted by tex2670
In the 1980s and 90s, there was a "Gray Market" that existed to import cars (or versions of cars) from Europe that weren't available in the US due to our stricter regulations.
Those were due to safety regulations, not efficiency regulations. Even so though, that was 40 years ago. Since 1988 its been illegal to import any car to the US that was not originally approved to be sold here that isn't 25 years old.



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:38 PM.