Diesel fuel has an effective 13% higher energy output versus gasoline this makes it seem diesel engines are more efficient than they really are. In the United States 137 billion gallons of gasoline are consumed per year, this is just refined motor vehicle fuel not accounting for any other uses of oil as transport. And yes oil has transformed everything, it has lifted billions out of poverty. Conflated that into saying it's fine to burn gasoline in cars is a poor argument at best.

Here's the lifecycle of oil as we use it, millions of years of sunlight turning biomass into oil. At the current clip we'll burn almost all of that in 200 years. And still, knowing all of the above and the cradle to grave nature of ICE versus EV, people will still say EVs are not sustainable and we should keep burning oil.

 

Great, let me know if this changes a darn thing in the slightest lol.

-product planning in decades not for tomorrow or 6 months from now.
-cheap cars existed, and yet the avg transaction price has been increasing to now a staggering $50k.
-ev demand collapsed for sure, but it is not the end of the road. Its a specialized tool that needs the correct owner.
-diesels are no bueno for avg joe/jill. They should be reserved only for erevs in actual HD fleet customers.

 

This is just not true, its an American viewpoint but in Europe average Joes and Jills have been happily driving diesels for decades.

 

They were designed by JDM makers as a fuel and emissions saving strategy in anticipation for stricter regulatory environments.
https://www.sae.org/papers/effect-0w...y-1999-01-3468

The EPA also has sent letters in the past to different automakers that outlining such. EPA letter states what is required of the automaker as part of their CAFE award.

https://www.wranglerforum.com/attach...a-pdf.4587921/

 

I'm well aware, but that was done many years ago. They're not going to reverse course now.

 

But isn't that in part because the price of gas (er....petrol) is far more expensive in Europe?

 

and the 48V Toyota diesel system is only designed to add in fuel efficiency, but not for on vehicle electronics etc

not sure if rolling back emissions would make it easier. But the biggest issue is up front purchase costs and the out of emission warranty certification for emissions.

 

Only in that being the case making them more sensitive to fuel economy. The point is they all drive diesels and it works out fine. Americans could happily drive diesels too but there is a stigma against them in the US.

 

i never said it did, but glad you're amused.

interesting analogy. i was hardly alone in getting an ev before the tax credit ended... tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) did.

exactly.

precisely.

indeed.

this is a good point and potential outcome. but with europe's population decline, lack of innovation, and potential war with russia, perhaps the 'big 3' or 2 might be better off.

good point. this will hit tesla's qtrly results for sure.

source for this info that i think no one else here is aware of? perhaps because it doesn't exist.

 

 

They employ a 4.3Ah battery that is essentially ineffective, delivering only a few seconds of power at most and perhaps a few minutes during engine-off idling. While they promote it as a lightweight battery, its energy density is merely 27Wh/kg, which is even lower than many lead-acid batteries and significantly less than NiMH batteries. What’s the rationale behind using lithium-ion if they aren’t maximizing its energy density benefits?

 

This thread is such comedy.

One country rolling back emissions standards will not affect the trajectory of this world. Carmakers are not going to produce more V8s/diesels to sell here in the US, but not in other modern countries that will continue to have higher emissions standards. It's just not smart or efficient to do that. Plus, engine design/production takes years to implement. Companies have been planning for EVs, higher MPG vehicles for a decade. They will not scrap their plans because they don't know what the next administration will do.

And before anyone says that automakers have been selling different engines in different markets for decades, that is slowly not being the case. It's too expensive to do that. We are in a world of shared modular designs, even between automakers. It's too expensive to produce variety.

 

they've setup these rollbacks to be where a mere executive order cant undo it, it would have to go through the whole legislative process. The longer the public gets a taste of better/cheaper vehicles the harder it will be to go back.

 

The problem is that too many Americans, in their diesel-thinking, are stuck in the past. Older Americans remember the awful 1970s passenger-car diesels, from companies like VW and Isuzu, and the even worse diesel 5.7L V8 from GM in the early 80s. Those POS diesels took forever for their glow-plugs to heat up in cold weather so the engine would start, would rattle and pop like a can of marbles especially when cold, moved like slugs, suffered from water in the fuel because water-separators were sometimes not included, belched ugly black soot/smoke from the exhaust that didn't do one's lungs any good, and, worst of all, self-destructed because their blocks were converted gas-engines whose blocks were never designed to withstand a doubling in average-compression-ratio in the cylinders from about 10:1 to 20:1 or more. That ultra-high compression was needed to get the fuel-air mixture hot enough, without a spark plug, to fire on its own, but it did a number on the blocks and internal parts of converted gas engines not designed for it. Back then, it could be effectively-argued that only Mercedes and Peugeot, for passenger-cars, made durable long-lasting diesels, with blocks that were designed for diesel-compression to with. Younger Americans are also exposed to a lot of propaganda today about vehicle-engines, especially diesels, "ruining" the planet by spewing CO2 into the air....although the "Dieselgate" scandal at VW was not propaganda.....it did happen, and tarnished the company's reputation.

But that is all in the past.....those days are long-gone, and have been for decades. Not that long ago, I sampled some fairly recent Bluetec diesels from Mercedes and BMW, and TDI diesels from VW, and the difference between them and the 70s/80s vintage diesels is like night and day. So many of the old diesel problems have been engineered out of them that, to be honest, it is difficult to tell, from the driver's seat, even starting up, if you have a gas or diesel engine under the hood. About the only visible clues are the low-redline on the tach typical of diesels, a lot of noticeable torque at low-RPMs, and the sign on the fuel-gauge to use diesel fuel.