Yes sir. Realistically probably over 1 million per car. Halo product is very valuable pays for itself many times over, F-150 Lightning is not that.
Rivian is ramping up production as fast as possible. Tesla had it much harder they were the only company trying to push EVs in volume, first mover advantage is also first mover cost. Supply chain is now much more mature and battery prices are plummeting.

 

$300k??? Surely not that much. It was a 400k car. But yes they expected to lose money to have the LFA in their drawer of goodies. Anyone who thinks Lexus doesn’t have it, I direct them to that car.

Rivian does need to ramp up, the reason I wasn’t aware they’re losing money is because there are tons around. But mostly the SUV.

 

I really don't get the focus on anyone other than Tesla incurring losses, they are an inevitable consequence of a launch. New EVs don't design themselves, factories don't build themselves, sales and marketing isn't free and so on. Some like Ford are also restructuring into EV divisions and pushing losses into the new EV divisions. Losses do carry forward, of course, and will shield future profits from tax, and the R&D can sometimes be offset by certain tax credits. The big number per vehicle losses are simply someone dividing the overall operating or tax losses by vehicles sold, but that doesn't reflect the operating margin per vehicle which may well still be a loss but it's not 35K on a 50K EV.

 

Tesla builds a factory for what Ford spends per year on advertising.

 

Exactly, and Tesla lost money for a LONG time. EVs will be loss leaders for carmakers for a good while, soo much being invested in R&D and builf out

 

Let's say it costs $4 billion to build a factory. Average price of the vehicle from that factory is $80,000 and you make 10% profit. That means you have to sell 500,000 cars to make back your money, but that doesn't account for any production costs. Given this it's simple to see that without volume you're dead in the water or you have to be like Ferrari and have a very high cost car.

Tesla didn't become net profitable until 2020 guess how many cars they sold that year.

 

The profitability will come.

 

I wanted to share a post I read on a BMW forum earlier today from someone who drove Teslas for many years and has moved on to other EVs. With the exception of Cybertruck, this is similar to my experience and how I feel about the Tesla brand/Tesla cars.

Source: Bimmerpost

I bolded the parts I really identified with, the main part being:

Again, with the exception of Cybertruck, I think this was very well said and I feel the same way. I love the styling of our Model Y, the power, ease of which the car can be thrown around, but hate all the vibrations that make their way through to the cabin, the terrible ride quality, the instability at highway speeds (80+ feels like it's getting ready to bounce off the road and I have to do a lot of work to keep it going straight and cruising). It's not an "easy" manual driving experience on the highway, and I don't love a lot of things about Autopilot. Autopilot has a lot to be improved, IMO. I also really hate how "clear" the glass in the Tesla isn't. The windshield, side glass, etc all has distortions in it. So yeah, I loved the Tesla, it's been a great time for the most part but is lacking in a lot of ways and now we're in a time where other manufacturers who make better cars are now making better EVs.

I think Teslas were next level and offered a lot more than most competing cars for a long time when S, X, 3, and Y first came out, but that was a loooong time ago. Many cars have come and gone in that time and we're still left with the same cars that are now falling behind the competition.

If it wasn't for the Cybertruck, our Model Y would be our first and last Tesla.

 

All very fair and relatable points. I'm exactly 1 year into EV life with a MYP and I've loved EV ownership. Coming from an LS460L, the MYP was a big change in ride quality, road noise, etc. but I was aware of these and willing to make the sacrifice for now. Tesla was the safest bet for an EV when we bought - had tons of friends with them, no reliability concerns, etc. I believe we will always have an EV in the garage, but it might not always be a Tesla. Steve (SW17LS) posted his driving feedback on the i7 as being the most sophisticated driving experience he's ever had (which says a lot based on him being in a modern S class). While I'm in no hurry to go spend $140k on one, it does open my eyes to the concept of a true luxury EV which would be right up my alley. As of now, the only Tesla I would consider would be an S or a CT.

 

My biggest complaint with a non-Tesla EV is the unreliability of fast charging. When the SC network opens up to everyone, I'll be a lot more comfortable going on long trips with the Rivian

 

That's one of my biggest complaints and why I would not buy an non Tesla as a "travel" vehicle. Just got back last night from a 1,200 mile trip in my Model Y, and charging was a no brainer. Plenty of chargers on the way, and when I got to SoCal, I had my pick my chargers wherever I went. I would base it on the pricing, for example one that was 5 minutes away was priced at .44 cents per kWh and one that was 10 minutes way was priced at .23 cents per Kwh. While in SoCal, I was literally driving from one end of SoCal to the other easily doing nearly 100 miles a day for four days straight, and had I had a non Tesla, charging would have been a bit of an issue. I never once had any problems finding nearby Tesla chargers, no matter what part of SoCal I had to go to.

I know you love your EQS @signdetres over your Y, but for travelling, there is no other car I would want to drive other than my Y. My last trip in my Polestar in February, I spent so much time finding available chargers and charging, I was almost wishing I had brought my Sienna

 

That’s totally fine, different strokes for different folks. If you prioritize charging stations, that’s ok. I’ll always prioritize my comfort and well being on long trips over charging stations personally.

In addition, this year adapters will be becoming available for non-Teslas so they can start using Tesla Superchargers. The following year cars will be shipping with NACS ports so they too will be able to use Tesla Superchargers.

The remaining advantage/exclusivity that Tesla’s have, their access to the most reliable and available charging network, will soon be a thing of the past as all EVs will be able to charge everywhere.

 

I totally agree. But until that happens, I personally (emphasis on personally ) wouldn't buy a non Tesla for travel outside of my area, meaning Bay Area

 

kind of makes you wonder, if tesla is shooting themselves in the foot by opening up the SC network to everyone. i assume non-tesla customers will pay a premium over teslas for charging perhaps? either way, i wonder how profitable the SC network is given that tesla has to buy the electricity from the grid mostly.

but with on the road charging becoming widely available, tesla will need to upgrade their products, or continue a race downward on price.

the 3/Y quality has improved and highland changes are nice. but is it enough?

i find it incredible that tesla still can't have showrooms or sell cars in the state its headquartered in (texas)!

the S and X are now pretty old, although obviously the electric drivetrain is very very good, but it seems like they're all good and close in range really.

it seems to me the 3/Y are firmly going after corolla/camry/civic/accord/rav4/other-cuv's... as more people see an ev in their life as viable, if people realize the ev is somewhat or a LOT cheaper, then it really works in tesla's favor. but i don't think tesla's car 'features' provide much value over anything else, and fsd is imo definitely not work $12K or whatever until it really lives up to its name.

i hope they sell a ton of CTs even though i don't wanna see 'em on the road.
like it or not, the CT *is* a huge innovation and bold move by tesla.
love the rear steer, the air suspension travel, the huge interior space, etc.
looking forward to see more real world reviews.
globally though, tesla needs the model 2, bringing it's lessons learned, manufacturing skill and price points to really go after huge volume.

 

I don't know, when I was in SoCal, I saw a whole boatload of new Model Y's, all with temporary license plates. That means they were delivered in the last 30 days. Also most of the Tesla charging areas were all 3/4 filled, mostly Model Y's followed by Model 3's. I think it's a few years away before Tesla needs to worry and start upgrading their products, at least here in California. Just my observation