SC430 Top problems
02-06-18, 12:10 PM
#1
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
SC430 Top problems
Hi all,
A few weeks back on a lovely Sunday afternoon I put my 2004 SC430 top down as I'd done so many times before and went for a great drive. When I returned home I pushed the CLOSE button only to have nothing happen.
I tried everything I could from checking all fuses, disconnecting the battery & hoping for a reset, looking for anything that may have jammed it and found nothing. Finally I took it to a mechanic friend of mine who helped me get the top back up manually per the manual, but could not get the rear windows to come up, plus the alert light & warning tone were constantly pn due to the manual top reset.
Having exhausted all of my options I made an appointment with my local Lexus dealer and dropped it off there yesterday and just received a call back telling me the following.
They've got my top and rear windows back up, the computer had found an error code for a bent hinge which they fixed, but apparently now the internal computers are not talking to each other properly and so the top will not work correctly meaning it stalls and will not fully open etc...
Bottom line if my service tech is recommending that I not go further with this repair as it could end up costing upwards of $5000-$10,000!!!
I have about 157K miles on the car and it is beautiful condition save for this one issue.
I love the car, love driving it every chance I get, but now I am in a quandary as to what the heck to do next as I really don't want to spend multiple thousands of $$ repairing it with no real guarantee as to where the money bleed will stop.
Yes I can drive it with the top up just fine, but that really does defeat one of the best reasons for owning it.
Honestly I am rather sick to my stomach right now and just looking for some guidance and input from you seasoned professionals out there as to what if anything I might want to try next before I go any further.
Thanks in advance for any insights on this situation.
A few weeks back on a lovely Sunday afternoon I put my 2004 SC430 top down as I'd done so many times before and went for a great drive. When I returned home I pushed the CLOSE button only to have nothing happen.
I tried everything I could from checking all fuses, disconnecting the battery & hoping for a reset, looking for anything that may have jammed it and found nothing. Finally I took it to a mechanic friend of mine who helped me get the top back up manually per the manual, but could not get the rear windows to come up, plus the alert light & warning tone were constantly pn due to the manual top reset.
Having exhausted all of my options I made an appointment with my local Lexus dealer and dropped it off there yesterday and just received a call back telling me the following.
They've got my top and rear windows back up, the computer had found an error code for a bent hinge which they fixed, but apparently now the internal computers are not talking to each other properly and so the top will not work correctly meaning it stalls and will not fully open etc...
Bottom line if my service tech is recommending that I not go further with this repair as it could end up costing upwards of $5000-$10,000!!!
I have about 157K miles on the car and it is beautiful condition save for this one issue.
I love the car, love driving it every chance I get, but now I am in a quandary as to what the heck to do next as I really don't want to spend multiple thousands of $$ repairing it with no real guarantee as to where the money bleed will stop.
Yes I can drive it with the top up just fine, but that really does defeat one of the best reasons for owning it.
Honestly I am rather sick to my stomach right now and just looking for some guidance and input from you seasoned professionals out there as to what if anything I might want to try next before I go any further.
Thanks in advance for any insights on this situation.
02-06-18, 12:37 PM
#2
Pole Position
Can you elaborate on what this statement means? Did they clear the error code from the computer, or did they physically fix the bent hinge?
Usually if there is a hinge problem in the SC top, the dealer charges $3500 to replace the hinge.
The key to fixing the SC's top is the exclusive Lexus Error Codes which need to be read using techstream. If you are planning on trying to fix it with your friend, you need to get a copy. If you are going to take it to a mechanic, make sure they have Techstream.
Once you find out which hinge is bad, you can buy a used one off ebay for about $300 and have it replaced in about 2 hours.
Usually if there is a hinge problem in the SC top, the dealer charges $3500 to replace the hinge.
The key to fixing the SC's top is the exclusive Lexus Error Codes which need to be read using techstream. If you are planning on trying to fix it with your friend, you need to get a copy. If you are going to take it to a mechanic, make sure they have Techstream.
Once you find out which hinge is bad, you can buy a used one off ebay for about $300 and have it replaced in about 2 hours.
02-06-18, 12:55 PM
#3
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Many thanks for the quick reply, I think you may have missed part of what I wrote…
"Having exhausted all of my options I made an appointment with my local Lexus dealer and dropped it off there yesterday"
The Lexus dealer is where the bent hinge code info came from and which they fixed, but now they are advising not to go any further with the repair as they cannot guarantee how much it will cost if it does get into replacing the computers and gave me an example of another customer who's similar SC430 top repair ended up costing $9500!
That's just to much money for me to spend on this car, even though I love the heck out of it!
I'm hoping there might be some other alternatives and suggestions than what the Lexus Dealer is considering, but perhaps I am just wishing for something that is just not possible, I am not sure.
"Having exhausted all of my options I made an appointment with my local Lexus dealer and dropped it off there yesterday"
The Lexus dealer is where the bent hinge code info came from and which they fixed, but now they are advising not to go any further with the repair as they cannot guarantee how much it will cost if it does get into replacing the computers and gave me an example of another customer who's similar SC430 top repair ended up costing $9500!
That's just to much money for me to spend on this car, even though I love the heck out of it!
I'm hoping there might be some other alternatives and suggestions than what the Lexus Dealer is considering, but perhaps I am just wishing for something that is just not possible, I am not sure.
02-06-18, 01:34 PM
#4
Moderator
I feel your pain. I had my drivers side hinge fail the cost was $5500. But it’s was covered under extended warranty.
Can you get the DTC codes from the dealer. The reason they’re making this statement is the number of computer components that ALL have to work properly TOGETHER. For example, the first action when starting the roof down is the front window start down, (door computers FL and FR) the rear quarters start down, the roof unlatches from A pillar and begins to move, the package shelf moves and wings fold in, and so and so on. All are talking to another computer in the trunk over the network. From that list we get pointers to problems and from the problems you can get a better understanding of how in depth the repair will be.
Can you get the DTC codes from the dealer. The reason they’re making this statement is the number of computer components that ALL have to work properly TOGETHER. For example, the first action when starting the roof down is the front window start down, (door computers FL and FR) the rear quarters start down, the roof unlatches from A pillar and begins to move, the package shelf moves and wings fold in, and so and so on. All are talking to another computer in the trunk over the network. From that list we get pointers to problems and from the problems you can get a better understanding of how in depth the repair will be.
Last edited by VVTiBob; 02-06-18 at 02:32 PM.
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coolcar (11-23-20)
02-06-18, 05:23 PM
#5
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
Hey big thanks for the reply, I just picked up the car from the dealer (more on that in minute) but first what they gave me was the following:
B2 & 521 codes - roof close switch on right hand side - hope that helps.
They also said that they were able to get it work partially, but again that the internal computers were not talking to each other correctly so the open/close process was not working properly.
They were able to get the top back up and rear side windows as well, but apparently when trying to open the top it stops midway and also more of a worry is that the flap that opens right behind the back seat was not opening and they could not figure out why.
The good news is after 4-5 hours of work on they chose not to bill me anything and had also included a loaner Lexus IS250 as well which I was not charged for, so more than fair on their part in my opinion.
The bad news is the service rep told me that due to the mileage (158K actually) that he would not recommend putting the money into fixing it and instead sell it and look for another SC430 with lower miles if that is the car I like.
His feeling was that it'd be $900 minimum just to get the diagnosis of what is wrong and then from there could be several thousand if not much more in the long run - YIKES!
One thing that alarmed me a little was that they did not know where to screw back in the roof bolts that the is clearly stated in the manual when manually putting the top back up, but who knows.
Funny thing, after I left the dealer I pulled into the Costco station to get some gas, a guy behind jumped out of his car and approached with big eyes and smile saying "you wouldn't be thinking about selling this car would you?" to which I smiled and said, well maybe ;-)
We briefly discussed the year and the mileage and he said "damn that is a great looking car" to which I smiled and said "thank you I couldn't agree more".
So again I am not sure what move to make next as I love the car and would really not like to sell it, but if I'm honest here I did buy it primarily for the convertible aspect as well as the rest of its great features, damn these 1st world problems!!!
B2 & 521 codes - roof close switch on right hand side - hope that helps.
They also said that they were able to get it work partially, but again that the internal computers were not talking to each other correctly so the open/close process was not working properly.
They were able to get the top back up and rear side windows as well, but apparently when trying to open the top it stops midway and also more of a worry is that the flap that opens right behind the back seat was not opening and they could not figure out why.
The good news is after 4-5 hours of work on they chose not to bill me anything and had also included a loaner Lexus IS250 as well which I was not charged for, so more than fair on their part in my opinion.
The bad news is the service rep told me that due to the mileage (158K actually) that he would not recommend putting the money into fixing it and instead sell it and look for another SC430 with lower miles if that is the car I like.
His feeling was that it'd be $900 minimum just to get the diagnosis of what is wrong and then from there could be several thousand if not much more in the long run - YIKES!
One thing that alarmed me a little was that they did not know where to screw back in the roof bolts that the is clearly stated in the manual when manually putting the top back up, but who knows.
Funny thing, after I left the dealer I pulled into the Costco station to get some gas, a guy behind jumped out of his car and approached with big eyes and smile saying "you wouldn't be thinking about selling this car would you?" to which I smiled and said, well maybe ;-)
We briefly discussed the year and the mileage and he said "damn that is a great looking car" to which I smiled and said "thank you I couldn't agree more".
So again I am not sure what move to make next as I love the car and would really not like to sell it, but if I'm honest here I did buy it primarily for the convertible aspect as well as the rest of its great features, damn these 1st world problems!!!
02-06-18, 08:19 PM
#6
Moderator
I'd call around to various Lexus dealers if any others are nearby and ask to speak to the service manager. Ask that person if they have a tech that has any significant experience with SC430s and specifically with convertible top issues. Even if you have to drive to another town/area to get it to someone with significant expertise. The tops are very relaiable and I think as a result very few techs have any serious experience at all working on a malfunctioning top at this point. Not every dealership has a really good SC430 specialist particularly as these cars are pretty rare and it's been a while since Lexus sold them and did warranty work on them.
02-06-18, 08:38 PM
#7
Moderator
There is one thing you can try if you have the time. Disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes. This allows residual energy in the ECUs to drain and reset. Tomorrow I’ll break out the service manual. To go through the DTCs.
if I remember correctly there are 26 motors, switches, sensors, latches and ECUs which must work correctly for the sliding roof to work properly. You mentioned the black shelf, that’s referred to in the FSM at the package shelf. BTW did the dealer get the completely closed AND latched?
if I remember correctly there are 26 motors, switches, sensors, latches and ECUs which must work correctly for the sliding roof to work properly. You mentioned the black shelf, that’s referred to in the FSM at the package shelf. BTW did the dealer get the completely closed AND latched?
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02-06-18, 09:10 PM
#8
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
I'd call around to various Lexus dealers if any others are nearby and ask to speak to the service manager. Ask that person if they have a tech that has any significant experience with SC430s and specifically with convertible top issues. Even if you have to drive to another town/area to get it to someone with significant expertise. The tops are very relaiable and I think as a result very few techs have any serious experience at all working on a malfunctioning top at this point. Not every dealership has a really good SC430 specialist particularly as these cars are pretty rare and it's been a while since Lexus sold them and did warranty work on them.
So it sounds like they just didn't want to deal with it and would rather save me some money and them some grief for not being able to fix it, hard to say. But yes it makes really good sense to find a tech who knows the SC430 top well, thanks for the push in that direction.
I'll let you know what I find out.
02-06-18, 09:18 PM
#9
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
There is one thing you can try if you have the time. Disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes. This allows residual energy in the ECUs to drain and reset. Tomorrow I’ll break out the service manual. To go through the DTCs.
if I remember correctly there are 26 motors, switches, sensors, latches and ECUs which must work correctly for the sliding roof to work properly. You mentioned the black shelf, that’s referred to in the FSM at the package shelf. BTW did the dealer get the completely closed AND latched?
if I remember correctly there are 26 motors, switches, sensors, latches and ECUs which must work correctly for the sliding roof to work properly. You mentioned the black shelf, that’s referred to in the FSM at the package shelf. BTW did the dealer get the completely closed AND latched?
Btw see my note above about what I've been able to find regarding the codes I got from the dealer earlier today as it sounds like they didn't give me the right ones or ones that'd be of help.
The rep was very cool, but said since they're not charging me anything he said that he really can't give me any kind of written info and then rattled off a coulpe of codes which I definitely wrote down correctly, but either way they didn't charge me anything which was extra nice of them.
Oh and yes they definitely got the top back up as well as the rear windows and all securely in place, so at least I can drive it and not worry about rain and weather issues until I get this figured out.
I'm hopeful that I'll find a tech who knows what to look for as I think it is worth it, in fact I just came back from a nice evening ride, stereo playing full on, seat heater on hi and damn I dig driving this car!
Many thanks to all of you for the replies, once again this forum rocks!
02-06-18, 09:42 PM
#10
The codes aren't bogus, its just that they are not B2 & 521, but rather B2251.
Diagnosis: B2521 (05−2012) Roof Close Switch RH Malfunction
Probable trouble areas:
Slid roof limit switch (Roof close RH)
Wire harness
Sliding roof control ECU assy B2
Whenever the top is involved, Lexus always lists "wire harness" and "ECU" as possible trouble. While true, its generally the switch. Luckily VVTiBob is back (you have no idea how lucky that is) cuz he'll be able to provide a diagram pointing you to the switch. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they get out of adjustment. Apparently you have a problem on the right hand side.
Check out this thread for some idea of the fun in your future -- Code B2536 Fix
Lexus dealers don't have a lot of experience with the tops -- its a pretty low volume car to start with only a small subset that has top problem. The dealer is not going to want to spend time parcing out the specific component. They are going to throw complete assemblies at the problem until its fixed. Expensive parts, unfortunately, that take substantial shop time to install.
Diagnosis: B2521 (05−2012) Roof Close Switch RH Malfunction
Probable trouble areas:
Slid roof limit switch (Roof close RH)
Wire harness
Sliding roof control ECU assy B2
Whenever the top is involved, Lexus always lists "wire harness" and "ECU" as possible trouble. While true, its generally the switch. Luckily VVTiBob is back (you have no idea how lucky that is) cuz he'll be able to provide a diagram pointing you to the switch. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they get out of adjustment. Apparently you have a problem on the right hand side.
Check out this thread for some idea of the fun in your future -- Code B2536 Fix
Lexus dealers don't have a lot of experience with the tops -- its a pretty low volume car to start with only a small subset that has top problem. The dealer is not going to want to spend time parcing out the specific component. They are going to throw complete assemblies at the problem until its fixed. Expensive parts, unfortunately, that take substantial shop time to install.
Last edited by JohnnyCake; 02-06-18 at 09:49 PM.
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PrinLexa (09-16-19)
02-06-18, 10:11 PM
#11
Driver School Candidate
Thread Starter
The codes aren't bogus, its just that they are not B2 & 521, but rather B2251.
Diagnosis: B2521 (05−2012) Roof Close Switch RH Malfunction
Probable trouble areas:
Slid roof limit switch (Roof close RH)
Wire harness
Sliding roof control ECU assy B2
Whenever the top is involved, Lexus always lists "wire harness" and "ECU" as possible trouble. While true, its generally the switch. Luckily VVTiBob is back (you have no idea how lucky that is) cuz he'll be able to provide a diagram pointing you to the switch. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they get out of adjustment. Apparently you have a problem on the right hand side.
Check out this thread for some idea of the fun in your future -- Code B2536 Fix
Lexus dealers don't have a lot of experience with the tops -- its a pretty low volume car to start with only a small subset that has top problem. The dealer is not going to want to spend time parcing out the specific component. They are going to throw complete assemblies at the problem until its fixed. Expensive parts, unfortunately, that take substantial shop time to install.
Diagnosis: B2521 (05−2012) Roof Close Switch RH Malfunction
Probable trouble areas:
Slid roof limit switch (Roof close RH)
Wire harness
Sliding roof control ECU assy B2
Whenever the top is involved, Lexus always lists "wire harness" and "ECU" as possible trouble. While true, its generally the switch. Luckily VVTiBob is back (you have no idea how lucky that is) cuz he'll be able to provide a diagram pointing you to the switch. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they get out of adjustment. Apparently you have a problem on the right hand side.
Check out this thread for some idea of the fun in your future -- Code B2536 Fix
Lexus dealers don't have a lot of experience with the tops -- its a pretty low volume car to start with only a small subset that has top problem. The dealer is not going to want to spend time parcing out the specific component. They are going to throw complete assemblies at the problem until its fixed. Expensive parts, unfortunately, that take substantial shop time to install.
Big thanks for the reply and possible leads towards the end game on this issue, deep stuff to be sure.
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PrinLexa (09-16-19)
02-06-18, 11:08 PM
#12
Pole Position
Sounded like the problem might not be as severed as you think. If you’re lucky, it’s just a switch. Do a search on the “top closing problem” , I think someone in this forum recently had same switch problem. Good luck.
02-07-18, 09:15 AM
#13
Moderator
DTCs for 02 Sliding Roof
Here is a nearly complete list of Diagnostic Trouble Codes for the 02 Sliding roof. I believe a few more have been added. Thats why it’s incomplete.
Last edited by VVTiBob; 02-10-18 at 10:56 AM.
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subzeroajo (10-19-23)
02-07-18, 09:23 AM
#14
Moderator
Here is a diagram of the sliding roof electrical components. Between the DTC and the diagrams we can clarify what we are talking about using the correct terminology.
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PrinLexa (09-16-19)
02-07-18, 10:44 AM
#15
Lead Lap
They also said that they were able to get it work partially, but again that the internal computers were not talking to each other correctly so the open/close process was not working properly.
They were able to get the top back up and rear side windows as well, but apparently when trying to open the top it stops midway and also more of a worry is that the flap that opens right behind the back seat was not opening and they could not figure out why.
They were able to get the top back up and rear side windows as well, but apparently when trying to open the top it stops midway and also more of a worry is that the flap that opens right behind the back seat was not opening and they could not figure out why.
Best of luck in your pursuit, keep us apprised.