Instability while turning right
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 10
From: MN
Instability while turning right
My wife drives a 2013 RX 350 AWD. During this winter, when she turned right (once from a standstill, once without standstill), the car went out of control at a very low speed. The vehicle has around 12000 miles on the odometer. The Lexus dealer could not replicate it. He said it might have been snow on the wheels. I too experienced it once and was very scared to use her car after that. Here is what happens:
Turned right at slow speed, suddenly the car sort of accelerates goes left, right and kind of rocks and then after 15 feet or so steadies itself. My wife has reduced her own usage of the car due to the freight she got twice. We live in Minnesota.
I would appreciate if anyone can tell if they faced such a problem before, and if yes, how did they overcome this problem. Both of us have driven for decades and are in our 50s, so speed is not an issue neither is inexperience. We have no explanation to this bizarre incidents. Was it some flaw in the self correction, some snow traction issue?
Turned right at slow speed, suddenly the car sort of accelerates goes left, right and kind of rocks and then after 15 feet or so steadies itself. My wife has reduced her own usage of the car due to the freight she got twice. We live in Minnesota.
I would appreciate if anyone can tell if they faced such a problem before, and if yes, how did they overcome this problem. Both of us have driven for decades and are in our 50s, so speed is not an issue neither is inexperience. We have no explanation to this bizarre incidents. Was it some flaw in the self correction, some snow traction issue?
Rookie
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 39
Likes: 5
From: MN
I also live in the land of 10,000 lakes and continue to endure this never ending winter!
On re-reading your post it sounds like the rear wheels are applying power while the front wheels are turned and locked, causing the front wheels to skid on the snow/ice/slush beneath until better traction is obtained. (The 'left' being more of a straight).
See pg. 237-242 in the Manual dealing with AWD-Lock, VSC & TRAC. If you had AWD-Lock engaged the following quote may describe what you experienced. The emphasis is mine.
"All-wheel drive lock mode can be used when a large amount of drive power
needs to be applied to all the wheels, such as when the vehicle gets stuck in
mud and you need to free it.
Press the switch.
The torque of the engine is dis-
tributed to the rear wheels to
the maximum extent possible in
accordance with driving condi-
tions.
Pressing the switch again can-
cels all-wheel drive lock mode
and returns the active torque
control 4WD system to normal
mode. (→P. 235)"
Or maybe a snow/ice accumulation in the wheel wells?
I've found my 2010 RX350 to be completely steady this winter even on side streets in Uptown!
Now if I can manage the 'pothole salomon.'
On re-reading your post it sounds like the rear wheels are applying power while the front wheels are turned and locked, causing the front wheels to skid on the snow/ice/slush beneath until better traction is obtained. (The 'left' being more of a straight).
See pg. 237-242 in the Manual dealing with AWD-Lock, VSC & TRAC. If you had AWD-Lock engaged the following quote may describe what you experienced. The emphasis is mine.
"All-wheel drive lock mode can be used when a large amount of drive power
needs to be applied to all the wheels, such as when the vehicle gets stuck in
mud and you need to free it.
Press the switch.
The torque of the engine is dis-
tributed to the rear wheels to
the maximum extent possible in
accordance with driving condi-
tions.
Pressing the switch again can-
cels all-wheel drive lock mode
and returns the active torque
control 4WD system to normal
mode. (→P. 235)"
Or maybe a snow/ice accumulation in the wheel wells?
I've found my 2010 RX350 to be completely steady this winter even on side streets in Uptown!
Now if I can manage the 'pothole salomon.'
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 10
From: MN
This is an AWD, so would that not overcome FWD? Traction control was at default, that is switched on. Foot was on accelerator because she was starting from a stop sign to turn right.
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 10
From: MN
I think your statement "Or maybe a snow/ice accumulation in the wheel wells?" may be the only reason I can think off. It is common to have snow piled up between the wheels and the wheel well. But the roads were clear of snow. I have also personally experienced this phenomenon once and I have been scared off even considering a replacing my Honda CRV by a Lexus RX. This is some self correction algorithm that is out control. Hard to replicate, but once it happens, it puts a permanent scare in you. The car behaves as if you have no control on the car for a short period of time.
I also live in the land of 10,000 lakes and continue to endure this never ending winter!
On re-reading your post it sounds like the rear wheels are applying power while the front wheels are turned and locked, causing the front wheels to skid on the snow/ice/slush beneath until better traction is obtained. (The 'left' being more of a straight).
See pg. 237-242 in the Manual dealing with AWD-Lock, VSC & TRAC. If you had AWD-Lock engaged the following quote may describe what you experienced. The emphasis is mine.
"All-wheel drive lock mode can be used when a large amount of drive power
needs to be applied to all the wheels, such as when the vehicle gets stuck in
mud and you need to free it.
Press the switch.
The torque of the engine is dis-
tributed to the rear wheels to
the maximum extent possible in
accordance with driving condi-
tions.
Pressing the switch again can-
cels all-wheel drive lock mode
and returns the active torque
control 4WD system to normal
mode. (→P. 235)"
Or maybe a snow/ice accumulation in the wheel wells?
I've found my 2010 RX350 to be completely steady this winter even on side streets in Uptown!
Now if I can manage the 'pothole salomon.'
On re-reading your post it sounds like the rear wheels are applying power while the front wheels are turned and locked, causing the front wheels to skid on the snow/ice/slush beneath until better traction is obtained. (The 'left' being more of a straight).
See pg. 237-242 in the Manual dealing with AWD-Lock, VSC & TRAC. If you had AWD-Lock engaged the following quote may describe what you experienced. The emphasis is mine.
"All-wheel drive lock mode can be used when a large amount of drive power
needs to be applied to all the wheels, such as when the vehicle gets stuck in
mud and you need to free it.
Press the switch.
The torque of the engine is dis-
tributed to the rear wheels to
the maximum extent possible in
accordance with driving condi-
tions.
Pressing the switch again can-
cels all-wheel drive lock mode
and returns the active torque
control 4WD system to normal
mode. (→P. 235)"
Or maybe a snow/ice accumulation in the wheel wells?
I've found my 2010 RX350 to be completely steady this winter even on side streets in Uptown!
Now if I can manage the 'pothole salomon.'
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,068
Likes: 11
From: California
My wife drives a 2013 RX 350 AWD. During this winter, when she turned right (once from a standstill, once without standstill), the car went out of control at a very low speed. The vehicle has around 12000 miles on the odometer. The Lexus dealer could not replicate it. He said it might have been snow on the wheels. I too experienced it once and was very scared to use her car after that. Here is what happens:
Turned right at slow speed, suddenly the car sort of accelerates goes left, right and kind of rocks and then after 15 feet or so steadies itself. My wife has reduced her own usage of the car due to the freight she got twice. We live in Minnesota.
I would appreciate if anyone can tell if they faced such a problem before, and if yes, how did they overcome this problem. Both of us have driven for decades and are in our 50s, so speed is not an issue neither is inexperience. We have no explanation to this bizarre incidents. Was it some flaw in the self correction, some snow traction issue?
Turned right at slow speed, suddenly the car sort of accelerates goes left, right and kind of rocks and then after 15 feet or so steadies itself. My wife has reduced her own usage of the car due to the freight she got twice. We live in Minnesota.
I would appreciate if anyone can tell if they faced such a problem before, and if yes, how did they overcome this problem. Both of us have driven for decades and are in our 50s, so speed is not an issue neither is inexperience. We have no explanation to this bizarre incidents. Was it some flaw in the self correction, some snow traction issue?
Summer? All season?
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Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 502
Likes: 11
From: New Brunswick (NB)
You mentioned stock tires..............snow tires ?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,973
Likes: 55
From: Ohio
Under hard acceleration, my RX will torque-steer, throwing the car left and right, even in perfect conditions.
My guess is that under acceleration while turning, the vehicle started to understeer and the VSC/Trac system attempted to correct it by applying brakes.
Actually, in this case, AWD/4WD vehicles plow through, attempting to go straight, resulting in a sever understeer. An aggressive 4WD system only goes in one direction - forward. This has to do with all 4 wheels moving at the same speed, resisting any changes that are needed to turn.
No, I don't play soccer!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,652
Likes: 177
From: NJ
upnorth85, sorry your wife has had some unpleasant experiences with the RX 350 while turning in the snow. Can you tell us how much snow was on the ground at the time and/or if it was icy? From my experience in the RX (15+ years) I haven't had anything like that happen even with several inches on the ground. Ice can make acceleration tricky but not to the point I felt endangered. It sounds like you might benefit from dedicated winter tires, or at least a better brand. Stock can be Michelin, Bridgestone or Dunlop. I put them in order of preference.
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 10
From: MN
When I had the same thing happen, there was no snow on the ground, but temperature was -5F in the night. Car had only traveled 1 mile from coldstart. The tires are what came with the original and are not snow tires. But there may have been snow under the mudguards because that is very common in MN because temperatures remain below freezing after snow falls and snow does not fall off from the mudguard. I strongly suspect it is some automatic vehicle control system that comes in to play when accelerating from standstill and if the road is icy. The car goes out of control, goes left, right and like rocks and leaves the driver shaken because the speed can be real slow. It is most puzzling and the Lexus dealer also had no idea and could not replicate this. My wife travels half the month on business and her Lexus is parked in the garage and she is keenly looking forward to spring.
upnorth85, sorry your wife has had some unpleasant experiences with the RX 350 while turning in the snow. Can you tell us how much snow was on the ground at the time and/or if it was icy? From my experience in the RX (15+ years) I haven't had anything like that happen even with several inches on the ground. Ice can make acceleration tricky but not to the point I felt endangered. It sounds like you might benefit from dedicated winter tires, or at least a better brand. Stock can be Michelin, Bridgestone or Dunlop. I put them in order of preference.
No, I don't play soccer!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,652
Likes: 177
From: NJ
Any snow that gets into the wheel well lining sticks like glue. I wish they were plastic like previous gen RXs. Sometimes it can make it all the way to the tire. If that froze, I could see it causing a problem. I've gotten into the habit of knocking any slush/snow off the mudguards after I drive.
I happen to find this recall when I googled VSC. I don't know if it might be responsible for the problem but it's worth a shot. Check in the Lexus owner's website to the see if your RX is included. Please keep us posted.
I happen to find this recall when I googled VSC. I don't know if it might be responsible for the problem but it's worth a shot. Check in the Lexus owner's website to the see if your RX is included. Please keep us posted.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 502
Likes: 11
From: New Brunswick (NB)
Put a set of dedicated, purpose built, snow tires on the car. Will make the world of difference.
I'm running Blizzaks & change to a set of Michelins for Summer.
AWD, FWD, traction control etc. will only be useful if the tires can get a bite.
I'm running Blizzaks & change to a set of Michelins for Summer.
AWD, FWD, traction control etc. will only be useful if the tires can get a bite.
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 10
From: MN
Thanks, this seems to be the most logical reason (I hope, nothing else). I will report back if this problem happens again.
Any snow that gets into the wheel well lining sticks like glue. I wish they were plastic like previous gen RXs. Sometimes it can make it all the way to the tire. If that froze, I could see it causing a problem. I've gotten into the habit of knocking any slush/snow off the mudguards after I drive.
I happen to find this recall when I googled VSC. I don't know if it might be responsible for the problem but it's worth a shot. Check in the Lexus owner's website to the see if your RX is included. Please keep us posted.
I happen to find this recall when I googled VSC. I don't know if it might be responsible for the problem but it's worth a shot. Check in the Lexus owner's website to the see if your RX is included. Please keep us posted.