What should I look for with a used LS460? Common Problems? (merged threads)
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 66
From: IN
This, along with many others here (just search) is a pretty good thread to read through. Look at post #5.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,371
Likes: 526
From: BC Canada
Acura is still above average, but not as high up as Toyota, Lexus or Honda.
http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Acura.html
http://www.dashboard-light.com/reports/Acura.html
Lead Lap
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 722
Likes: 61
From: Co
I worked at a Jag/Volvo dealer way back along side a couple Jag mechanics. One came back from the factory school and told me they instructed him that Jag oil leaks were not oil leaks but controlled seepage and to stop trying to fix them under warranty. He said there is no fix. You have to explain controlled seepage to the customers. This is not a joke.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,668
Likes: 211
From: Someplace in CT
I originally posted this on another forum; but I think it's still relevant here:
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a couple things to look out for from early LSs of the XF40 variety:
Front Control Arms: the front suspensions of these cars are more complex than the earlier XF30 cars; they have six control arms (3 per side). Bushings in early models have the tendency to crack; dealers tend to replace the whole thing. Expensive; but an indie shop may be cheaper. You can hear a clunking if you go over bumps at low speed. I think this was largely resolved by '08.
Brake Actuator: some of them make a clacking noise when brakes are applied; remedy is to replace the actuator (this is expensive). Also there are a bunch of software updates for the braking system for a couple minor issues. Problem in some '07 and '08 cars.
Engine: there is a recall out for a few Toyota engines from this timeframe for valve springs (they can crack); any dealer can tell you if the recall has been done from the VIN number; and I think a dealer would probably still honor it but I would double check. It might show up on Carfax (mine did). The UR engines have a timing chain (not belt) so that expensive maintenance item is no longer a concern.
Transmission: generally durable but there is a software update floating around to correct some clunking noises that people complained about.
ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.
Air Suspension: the big one on any LS. The air springs and shocks are a single unit; so if one goes they both go; and they need to be replaced in pairs. The suspensions don't usually fail but when they do it's about $900 a shock plus an hour of labor to replace; so make sure the car doesn't sink into it's suspension overnight. If you see the 'Sport/ Comfort' and 'Height Hi' switches on the left side of the dash below the gear selector your car has it. Toyota seems to be improving the air suspension with each generation; but on a higher mileage car this is something to look out for.
Wind Noise: there is a little plastic triangle on the front windows that sometimes leaks; there is a documented fix on this and other forums on how to remove and seal this. I think my car has it but I haven't bothered to address it yet.
That's it as far as I know for the big ones. And then some other random tidbits:
Drivers side armrest; I've seen these wear a little but but the LWB cars seem to have the leather versions rather than the synthetic ones. Lexus leather generally wears very well. There is a recall for '07 models that may cover this.
Leather and plastics: in the Southwest the sun tends to dry these out; good detailing products will generally return them to near-new condition but if the car sits outside for long periods of time this can be annoying. The quality of the semi-aniline leather in particular is extraordinary; and the wood trim is the best I've seen outside a Rolls Royce. The Alcantara headliner is also easy to care for and wears well.
Tires: the 19" wheels have high performance tires that wear quickly. Also high-friction brake pads on the Touring Package cost more and last less than the standard ones.
Nav: the 07+ have HD based which means you pretty much have to have the dealer update; no cheap upgrades on ebay for this one.
None of the above should scare you off. I have two Mercedes from the pre-1992 era (which are generally regarded as indestructible) and the Lexus LS meets or exceeds their build quality in almost every area.
The reliability is no contest; these are (generally) very hardy, very durable cars. I've had my '01 LS430 for 9 years and have really had nothing aside from general maintenance, a couple 02 sensors, and a MAF sensor go out over that time. All the toys still work; it still sails through the DMV smog check.
Also many of the smaller (and more annoying) issues have documented DIY fixes here and on other forums that save time and money over going to the dealer. Provided you do regular maintenance the engine and transmission seem almost indestructible.
Obviously get a Carfax report; and if you are picky about autos you'll want to see, touch and feel the car before you take it home. Investigate an aftermarket warranty; but generally I think you'd be ok without one.
You can also pay $10 and get an account for the day at https://techinfo.toyota.com and see what TSBs were issued and if your car might be subject to them (they list affected VINs). Also if you call most Lexus Dealers and give them the VIN they can pull up the dealer service history which is always nice to see (they can tell you if the car had the valve spring and any other recalls, for example).
That said, I think the LS is probably the ONLY car of this class that I would even consider buying sight unseen with a reasonably high level of confidence.
------------------------------------
a couple things to look out for from early LSs of the XF40 variety:
Front Control Arms: the front suspensions of these cars are more complex than the earlier XF30 cars; they have six control arms (3 per side). Bushings in early models have the tendency to crack; dealers tend to replace the whole thing. Expensive; but an indie shop may be cheaper. You can hear a clunking if you go over bumps at low speed. I think this was largely resolved by '08.
Brake Actuator: some of them make a clacking noise when brakes are applied; remedy is to replace the actuator (this is expensive). Also there are a bunch of software updates for the braking system for a couple minor issues. Problem in some '07 and '08 cars.
Engine: there is a recall out for a few Toyota engines from this timeframe for valve springs (they can crack); any dealer can tell you if the recall has been done from the VIN number; and I think a dealer would probably still honor it but I would double check. It might show up on Carfax (mine did). The UR engines have a timing chain (not belt) so that expensive maintenance item is no longer a concern.
Transmission: generally durable but there is a software update floating around to correct some clunking noises that people complained about.
ML Amp: these can die on occasion but not too common; there are places on the internet that repair them for a couple hundred bucks.
Air Suspension: the big one on any LS. The air springs and shocks are a single unit; so if one goes they both go; and they need to be replaced in pairs. The suspensions don't usually fail but when they do it's about $900 a shock plus an hour of labor to replace; so make sure the car doesn't sink into it's suspension overnight. If you see the 'Sport/ Comfort' and 'Height Hi' switches on the left side of the dash below the gear selector your car has it. Toyota seems to be improving the air suspension with each generation; but on a higher mileage car this is something to look out for.
Wind Noise: there is a little plastic triangle on the front windows that sometimes leaks; there is a documented fix on this and other forums on how to remove and seal this. I think my car has it but I haven't bothered to address it yet.
That's it as far as I know for the big ones. And then some other random tidbits:
Drivers side armrest; I've seen these wear a little but but the LWB cars seem to have the leather versions rather than the synthetic ones. Lexus leather generally wears very well. There is a recall for '07 models that may cover this.
Leather and plastics: in the Southwest the sun tends to dry these out; good detailing products will generally return them to near-new condition but if the car sits outside for long periods of time this can be annoying. The quality of the semi-aniline leather in particular is extraordinary; and the wood trim is the best I've seen outside a Rolls Royce. The Alcantara headliner is also easy to care for and wears well.
Tires: the 19" wheels have high performance tires that wear quickly. Also high-friction brake pads on the Touring Package cost more and last less than the standard ones.
Nav: the 07+ have HD based which means you pretty much have to have the dealer update; no cheap upgrades on ebay for this one.
None of the above should scare you off. I have two Mercedes from the pre-1992 era (which are generally regarded as indestructible) and the Lexus LS meets or exceeds their build quality in almost every area.
The reliability is no contest; these are (generally) very hardy, very durable cars. I've had my '01 LS430 for 9 years and have really had nothing aside from general maintenance, a couple 02 sensors, and a MAF sensor go out over that time. All the toys still work; it still sails through the DMV smog check.
Also many of the smaller (and more annoying) issues have documented DIY fixes here and on other forums that save time and money over going to the dealer. Provided you do regular maintenance the engine and transmission seem almost indestructible.
Obviously get a Carfax report; and if you are picky about autos you'll want to see, touch and feel the car before you take it home. Investigate an aftermarket warranty; but generally I think you'd be ok without one.
You can also pay $10 and get an account for the day at https://techinfo.toyota.com and see what TSBs were issued and if your car might be subject to them (they list affected VINs). Also if you call most Lexus Dealers and give them the VIN they can pull up the dealer service history which is always nice to see (they can tell you if the car had the valve spring and any other recalls, for example).
That said, I think the LS is probably the ONLY car of this class that I would even consider buying sight unseen with a reasonably high level of confidence.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 117
From: Sacramento, CA
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,269
Likes: 296
From: ------
Some of those cars you are interested in are not only not V8's but are also front wheel drive. Not sure if that concerns you or not. It would me.
In regards to the Acura, do you research. They have literally fallen off the charts for reliability. I believe they are 17 of the 30 or so manufacturers, mostly due to transmission problems. Shocking, but true.
As for any issues with the LS, the only areas of concern (and even then...minimal), are the noted control arms, water pumps, and the Mark Levinson amp. All of which can be fixed for peanuts. 1500 for CA's, couple hundred for water pump and amp for 6-800. And your car may not suffer from any of them. For example, I only had to replace ONE control arm and one ball joint, I Diy'd my water pump for 60 bucks and my ML amp has never failed me. My 08 has over 190k kms (125k miles?), on the odo and has been the most reliable car I've ever owned (about 20 cars from BMW to Acura to Domestic).
In regards to the Acura, do you research. They have literally fallen off the charts for reliability. I believe they are 17 of the 30 or so manufacturers, mostly due to transmission problems. Shocking, but true.
As for any issues with the LS, the only areas of concern (and even then...minimal), are the noted control arms, water pumps, and the Mark Levinson amp. All of which can be fixed for peanuts. 1500 for CA's, couple hundred for water pump and amp for 6-800. And your car may not suffer from any of them. For example, I only had to replace ONE control arm and one ball joint, I Diy'd my water pump for 60 bucks and my ML amp has never failed me. My 08 has over 190k kms (125k miles?), on the odo and has been the most reliable car I've ever owned (about 20 cars from BMW to Acura to Domestic).
I know not all the cars are V8's, the IS350 6 cylinder is quick enough for me, TL 6 cylinder pretty quick and very smooth, don't mind a fwd based Acura too much, especially when it has SHawd. I have talked to and know a lot of people with the 4th Gen TL including a few in my neighborhood and they have all been extremely reliable, probably less issues then my Lexus had. Most modern Acura's have taken a nose dive in ratings/quality because of the hated touchscreen interfaces, they are still very reliable mechanically and built well.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
From: AZ
I worked at a Jag/Volvo dealer way back along side a couple Jag mechanics. One came back from the factory school and told me they instructed him that Jag oil leaks were not oil leaks but controlled seepage and to stop trying to fix them under warranty. He said there is no fix. You have to explain controlled seepage to the customers. This is not a joke.
Back to the LS. I've seen posts indicating the control arm busing problem is on the 2007-09, but others say it's the 2011 and newer that doesn't have the problem. 2011's are currently out of my price range without being driven hard and put away wet. So are most 2010's, but not all. So are the control arms different on the 2010 than the 2007?
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: TEXAS
well I had a 2006 m45 180K that I traded for a 2009 LS460 I can tell you that it all just depends on preference now the m45 I never had any problems no check engine lights on ever just replaced minor wear and tear items has better performance and a DVD player with Bose speaker surround sound and 2 speakers in each of the front seats when you do the nav/DVD hack when watching movies it sounds like your at the theater but the m45 is better performance wise it has more kick more umph than the Lexus but not as luxurious now the LS460 on the other hand is not up to par performance wise as the m45 but the ls460 will for sure last longer it is one of the best built cars I have ever seen and the way it rides is so smooth when the transmission shifts you can barely even notice one feature that the ls460 has that m45 doesn't offer is a wood grain steering wheel hope I helped choose wisely the 06 and up m45 in my experience are some of the best cars Infiniti/Nissan ever made but in my opinion it doesn't come close to the ls460 for me and what I like in a car
Pole Position
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 348
From: Tennessee
My 2 cents worth. If you're looking for the LS, the 2011 - 2012 year models are probably most bullet proof. If you're wanting the next Gen then start at the 2014. Nothing wrong with the 2013, but for me the 2014 would be my direction.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,371
Likes: 526
From: BC Canada
That is good news there are not many issues with the LS. Was there anything noticeable about your control arms when you drove the car or was it something a mechanic said needed replacing.
Most modern Acura's have taken a nose dive in ratings/quality because of the hated touchscreen interfaces, they are still very reliable mechanically and built well.
Last edited by roadfrog; Mar 18, 2017 at 08:36 AM.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,668
Likes: 211
From: Someplace in CT
Here's a question. I am going to look at a 2007 LS460L but, it appears to have air... and 140K, would you avoid it ?
My 2001 is getting really old and she needs a lot of love and moving to a newer one is out as we are trying to buy a new home in a few months and dont want to get into a HUGE car payment RIGHT NOW. My 2001 is going to need MAJOR repairs soon so I think it's time with 243K to let it rest.
From the pictures, the car looks really nice and full of features (even bluetooth and backup camera is dreal as my 2001 does not have it) but, the air alone scares me.
Should I be worried ?
My 2001 is getting really old and she needs a lot of love and moving to a newer one is out as we are trying to buy a new home in a few months and dont want to get into a HUGE car payment RIGHT NOW. My 2001 is going to need MAJOR repairs soon so I think it's time with 243K to let it rest.
From the pictures, the car looks really nice and full of features (even bluetooth and backup camera is dreal as my 2001 does not have it) but, the air alone scares me.
Should I be worried ?
Pole Position
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 348
From: Tennessee
The 07 has bluetooth for your hands free phone, but unless someone added the feature, then there's no bluetooth audio. Because you mention your fears over air, I'd say no. Less is more. Stay away from potential issues and look elsewhere. Pick a budget that's comfortable and start over. The car with your name is out there. Take your time, look everywhere and you'll have the car soon enough.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,668
Likes: 211
From: Someplace in CT
The 07 has bluetooth for your hands free phone, but unless someone added the feature, then there's no bluetooth audio. Because you mention your fears over air, I'd say no. Less is more. Stay away from potential issues and look elsewhere. Pick a budget that's comfortable and start over. The car with your name is out there. Take your time, look everywhere and you'll have the car soon enough.
The price is really good, I might be able to get the car that looks like in great shape for under $10K.... and that would be a smoking deal.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 66
From: IN
The 07 has bluetooth for your hands free phone, but unless someone added the feature, then there's no bluetooth audio. Because you mention your fears over air, I'd say no. Less is more. Stay away from potential issues and look elsewhere. Pick a budget that's comfortable and start over. The car with your name is out there. Take your time, look everywhere and you'll have the car soon enough.
If you'd like to view a great example, one of the members here (FatherTo1) just recently purchased a '13 LS w/ UL packg. Its a beautiful car and he literally walked all of us through his thought process regarding his purchase and asked questions that ran the gamut between '07 to 13+.
Keep us all informed and ask as many questions as you'd like, we are all here to help and wish you the best of luck in your search. As R Z said, your car is out there.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,502
Likes: 66
From: IN
Well, trying to get someone's idea who has the air system. Not that I would not mind having it but, the fear of having a possable $2k repair bill in a random time does scare me a little. I've never had air.
The price is really good, I might be able to get the car that looks like in great shape for under $10K.... and that would be a smoking deal.
The price is really good, I might be able to get the car that looks like in great shape for under $10K.... and that would be a smoking deal.
Have you taken the time to look at the car on the Lexus Driver site?