Control Arm Issue?
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 8
From: Florida
Control Arm Issue?
All:
I'm wondering if this car has the brake actuator issue. What exactly are the symptoms? I have a light pulsation when rolling to a stop and a very loud THUNK when quickly coming to a stop at speed. If you lightly press on the brake at speed, then increase pressure, no noise. The braking just doesn't feel "right". Initially, I thought maybe pads and/or rotors, but the pulsation isn't present though the whole coming to a stop, just at light rolling stops and a quick movement of foot from accelerator to brake.
Thoughts?
.
I'm wondering if this car has the brake actuator issue. What exactly are the symptoms? I have a light pulsation when rolling to a stop and a very loud THUNK when quickly coming to a stop at speed. If you lightly press on the brake at speed, then increase pressure, no noise. The braking just doesn't feel "right". Initially, I thought maybe pads and/or rotors, but the pulsation isn't present though the whole coming to a stop, just at light rolling stops and a quick movement of foot from accelerator to brake.
Thoughts?
.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,371
Likes: 526
From: BC Canada
I have the EXACT same symptoms as you. I will be making an appointment for my gasket recall and I'll be asking them to look into the brake actuator as well, since there's now a warranty on it.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,371
Likes: 526
From: BC Canada
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 8
From: Florida
So..... sh1tty news.
I requested the DETAILED service history for the car from it's home dealership. Listed 30 miles before I bought it (the owner traded it in on an Audi):
- Front Control Arm Bushing Failure.
How happy am I right now? The dealership I bought it from has a "rigorous" 101 point inspection... Apparently, they missed this one EXPENSIVE detail. Well, at least I know. And since I now know, I can't get an extended warranty- because surely it would be disqualified as "pre-existing".
SIGH.
I requested the DETAILED service history for the car from it's home dealership. Listed 30 miles before I bought it (the owner traded it in on an Audi):
- Front Control Arm Bushing Failure.
How happy am I right now? The dealership I bought it from has a "rigorous" 101 point inspection... Apparently, they missed this one EXPENSIVE detail. Well, at least I know. And since I now know, I can't get an extended warranty- because surely it would be disqualified as "pre-existing".
SIGH.
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CL Community Team
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,262
Likes: 480
From: MA
I presume you bought it from an Audi dealership. I can think of several approaches, but I would start with talking to the dealership nicely (not threatening) and see what they are willing to do.
It is complete BS that they did a "rigorous 101 point inspection" and didn't spot that. It borders on outright fraud. Failing the "nice" approach, I bet if you told them that a small claims court would agree, they might be amenable to making it right. In Mass. you would even be able to collect treble damages, check your state's consumer laws. Another approach is to tell them you will file a complaint with the consumer affairs division of your state's attorney general.
This kind of crap just goes up me the wrong way. I'm getting aggravated the more I think about it. Go address it with them, and please report back here.
Good luck!
It is complete BS that they did a "rigorous 101 point inspection" and didn't spot that. It borders on outright fraud. Failing the "nice" approach, I bet if you told them that a small claims court would agree, they might be amenable to making it right. In Mass. you would even be able to collect treble damages, check your state's consumer laws. Another approach is to tell them you will file a complaint with the consumer affairs division of your state's attorney general.
This kind of crap just goes up me the wrong way. I'm getting aggravated the more I think about it. Go address it with them, and please report back here.
Good luck!
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Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 8
From: Florida
Here's the current communications chain. Mind you, the Lexus tech note that I sent over to the Audi Dealership clearly indicated "Failed control arm bushings", 30 miles before it was traded in.
Email chain below - read from bottom to top
Thx Ray, much appreciated!
On Sep 30, 2016 6:35 PM, "Ray (Walter ) Murr" <rmurr@crowncars.com> wrote:
Email chain below - read from bottom to top
Thx Ray, much appreciated!
On Sep 30, 2016 6:35 PM, "Ray (Walter ) Murr" <rmurr@crowncars.com> wrote:
I forwarded all the info on to our General Sales Manager, Jean-Mark and he’ll be getting with everyone and have a resolution on Monday for you.
Ray
From: J
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 6:25 PM
To: Ray (Walter ) Murr
Subject: RE: Your Lexus
Look at condition 3 in the document I sent you... It actually says "control arm bushings failed..notified customer".. If they found it, you're saying your folks did not? You put new tires on it and aligned it..so you knew something was wrong.. Your stance is, you basically missed it, and because you didn't make any money (which I don't believe) you're not willing to stand behind your "confidence plan"?
The net effect here is you missed it, and now it's my problem. Not good. Talk to David again.. If I don't get satisfaction here I will take other actions. I don't want another car. I want you guys to make good on your mistake.
Thanks for your time.
On Sep 30, 2016 6:10 PM, "Ray (Walter ) Murr" <rmurr@crowncars.com> wrote:
I took some time and rescheduled a customer so that I could work on this for you. We spoke to the service advisor (Louis) at Lexus Clearwater and reviewed the inspection from our tech because the suspension is part of the 101 point inspection that we perform. There was nothing found as far as noises or malfunctions when it was inspected and the Lexus dealers paperwork stated that they “could not duplicate the clunking complaint.” We can’t cover the repair under the Crown Warranty because when it gets submitted they will simply send it back to us stating that it is not a covered item. We didn’t make any funds on the vehicle when we sold it to you so I can’t pay for the repair out of money that wasn’t made. If you’d like to trade out of the vehicle into something else then we will do all we can to make that as easy a transition as possible financially. If the noise had been there when we inspected it wouldn’t have passed and the vehicle it would never have even been offered for sale, it would have gone straight to the wholesale auction. If you want to keep the car and pay for it to be repaired I can speak to David on Monday when he is back in the office to see if we could let you bring it to us and we send it to Lexus under our discount as a dealer.
I have an appointment in just a couple of minutes so I’ll be away from my phone and desk for a little while. Feel free to email or text me, I just didn’t want you to feel ignored if I don’t answer right away. Talk to you soon.
Ray
From: J
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 6:25 PM
To: Ray (Walter ) Murr
Subject: RE: Your Lexus
Look at condition 3 in the document I sent you... It actually says "control arm bushings failed..notified customer".. If they found it, you're saying your folks did not? You put new tires on it and aligned it..so you knew something was wrong.. Your stance is, you basically missed it, and because you didn't make any money (which I don't believe) you're not willing to stand behind your "confidence plan"?
The net effect here is you missed it, and now it's my problem. Not good. Talk to David again.. If I don't get satisfaction here I will take other actions. I don't want another car. I want you guys to make good on your mistake.
Thanks for your time.
On Sep 30, 2016 6:10 PM, "Ray (Walter ) Murr" <rmurr@crowncars.com> wrote:
I took some time and rescheduled a customer so that I could work on this for you. We spoke to the service advisor (Louis) at Lexus Clearwater and reviewed the inspection from our tech because the suspension is part of the 101 point inspection that we perform. There was nothing found as far as noises or malfunctions when it was inspected and the Lexus dealers paperwork stated that they “could not duplicate the clunking complaint.” We can’t cover the repair under the Crown Warranty because when it gets submitted they will simply send it back to us stating that it is not a covered item. We didn’t make any funds on the vehicle when we sold it to you so I can’t pay for the repair out of money that wasn’t made. If you’d like to trade out of the vehicle into something else then we will do all we can to make that as easy a transition as possible financially. If the noise had been there when we inspected it wouldn’t have passed and the vehicle it would never have even been offered for sale, it would have gone straight to the wholesale auction. If you want to keep the car and pay for it to be repaired I can speak to David on Monday when he is back in the office to see if we could let you bring it to us and we send it to Lexus under our discount as a dealer.
I have an appointment in just a couple of minutes so I’ll be away from my phone and desk for a little while. Feel free to email or text me, I just didn’t want you to feel ignored if I don’t answer right away. Talk to you soon.
CL Community Team
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,262
Likes: 480
From: MA
Well let's see what they tell you on Monday.
The way to detect this is by visual inspection, not by "noises" or "clunking". The fact they didn't make any money on the car (assuming that's true) has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The way to detect this is by visual inspection, not by "noises" or "clunking". The fact they didn't make any money on the car (assuming that's true) has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 758
Likes: 26
From: INACTIVE
There are four things in need of a "real" recall: glaze-prone oem rotors and pads, brake actuator clicking, hesitation, and control arms. These four things turn Lexus owners into Acura, Infiniti, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, or Lincoln owners. The LS is a nice product, it's strange that it's linked to these nuisances.
Pole Position
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 365
From: New Hampshire
So..... sh1tty news.
I requested the DETAILED service history for the car from it's home dealership. Listed 30 miles before I bought it (the owner traded it in on an Audi):
- Front Control Arm Bushing Failure.
How happy am I right now? The dealership I bought it from has a "rigorous" 101 point inspection... Apparently, they missed this one EXPENSIVE detail. Well, at least I know. And since I now know, I can't get an extended warranty- because surely it would be disqualified as "pre-existing".
SIGH.
I requested the DETAILED service history for the car from it's home dealership. Listed 30 miles before I bought it (the owner traded it in on an Audi):
- Front Control Arm Bushing Failure.
How happy am I right now? The dealership I bought it from has a "rigorous" 101 point inspection... Apparently, they missed this one EXPENSIVE detail. Well, at least I know. And since I now know, I can't get an extended warranty- because surely it would be disqualified as "pre-existing".
SIGH.
The problem with a Lexus dealer doing this repair (or inspecting it), is that this is a money maker for them. If I'm a tech there and I see a 460 come in with 70,000-100,00 miles and those arms have never been done? Guess what? I'm doing those arms...and I probably could do the job in an hour and a half (and be paid four hours for it=easy money).
It it took me four hours to replace my own at home in my garage...on my back...without a lift or air tools. All I had was a hammer, pry bar, ratchets and sockets, floor Jack, safety stands a drop light and some wrenches. I replaced six of the eight - and I probably only needed to replace four. The whole thing cost me around $550. Now I'm not saying everyone can do this, but an independent should be able to do all eight for around a grand, easy. And the aftermarket parts I used are holding up just fine (nine months and 20,000 miles later).
Bigfoot could walk out in the middle of Times Square and take a dump right on the side walk, and LS460 control arms would still be a more covered and exaggerated story. Don't get me wrong, it sucks that you'll have to spend a little money and get them fixed, but don't for a second think you need to go to the dealer and spend $4000. No way.
Last edited by Doublebase; Oct 2, 2016 at 09:20 AM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,371
Likes: 526
From: BC Canada
Bigfoot could walk out in the middle of Times Square and take a dump right on the side walk, and LS460 control arms would still be a more covered and exaggerated story.
And if this turned away someone from Lexus to BMW...they will be very sorry and begging their LS back.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 758
Likes: 26
From: INACTIVE
Lead Lap
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 722
Likes: 61
From: Co
If the dealer won't cover this for you, and you decide not to return the vehicle, it may not be as big or bad a deal as it appears right now.
The problem with a Lexus dealer doing this repair (or inspecting it), is that this is a money maker for them. If I'm a tech there and I see a 460 come in with 70,000-100,00 miles and those arms have never been done? Guess what? I'm doing those arms...and I probably could do the job in an hour and a half (and be paid four hours for it=easy money).
It it took me four hours to replace my own at home in my garage...on my back...without a lift or air tools. All I had was a hammer, pry bar, ratchets and sockets, floor Jack, safety stands a drop light and some wrenches. I replaced six of the eight - and I probably only needed to replace four. The whole thing cost me around $550. Now I'm not saying everyone can do this, but an independent should be able to do all eight for around a grand, easy. And the aftermarket parts I used are holding up just fine (nine months and 20,000 miles later).
Bigfoot could walk out in the middle of Times Square and take a dump right on the side walk, and LS460 control arms would still be a more covered and exaggerated story. Don't get me wrong, it sucks that you'll have to spend a little money and get them fixed, but don't for a second think you need to go to the dealer and spend $4000. No way.
The problem with a Lexus dealer doing this repair (or inspecting it), is that this is a money maker for them. If I'm a tech there and I see a 460 come in with 70,000-100,00 miles and those arms have never been done? Guess what? I'm doing those arms...and I probably could do the job in an hour and a half (and be paid four hours for it=easy money).
It it took me four hours to replace my own at home in my garage...on my back...without a lift or air tools. All I had was a hammer, pry bar, ratchets and sockets, floor Jack, safety stands a drop light and some wrenches. I replaced six of the eight - and I probably only needed to replace four. The whole thing cost me around $550. Now I'm not saying everyone can do this, but an independent should be able to do all eight for around a grand, easy. And the aftermarket parts I used are holding up just fine (nine months and 20,000 miles later).
Bigfoot could walk out in the middle of Times Square and take a dump right on the side walk, and LS460 control arms would still be a more covered and exaggerated story. Don't get me wrong, it sucks that you'll have to spend a little money and get them fixed, but don't for a second think you need to go to the dealer and spend $4000. No way.
Exactly
Man I would have tried to sell those control arms for every LS 460 that hit my lift. If it pays 4 hours I know I can do it in 1.5 after doing a couple .
The key to flat rating and making good money is selling the brake job etc at the same time. Wheels off already and just free money. But why shop at Nordstroms when you can get the same thing at Kohls for 1/3 the price. Toy Indy shop and aftermarket parts. Hell they can't be worse than the original ones.
