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Wanted to gather some thoughts on these coils I picked up about 5 and a half years ago but never ended up installing because they weren’t OEM and I wasn’t comfortable potentially ruining a perfectly good engine. I plan on installing these (pictures below with very old OEM’s), these are brand new inbox. I will also be replacing the spark plugs with Denso Brand. Let me know your thoughts on what this could potentially do for my car.
Sorry to say but it is not a smart idea to use a K/N filter. Many Celsior owners here were damaging the MAF sensor using it. I also don't recommend to use aftermarket ignition coils. Those don't match the design of the ECU as well as the reliability is not as high as the genuine. Sometimes the ECU is damaged, I must add.
The Coils and new Plugs will help. You should feel the difference improved throttle response on mild accelerations and top too. Funny that a bunch who have not used Hotter coils always go to the internet "it wont do nothing", always. There was just a report somewhere here, I think on the 460 motor dyno with hotter coils that showed some nice low to mid range gains, and top too. I would put in new plugs same as stock though, and the Becker coils too. As long as those Coils are matched for you engine. They will go great with the Headers and other Mods you have already.
I ran Hotter aftermarket coils on my GS460 and K&N. Many Lexus have used them in spite of the myths. It wont won't damage nothing. It should improve the Timing and KCLV. The K&N is no problem. Just keep it clean and Oiled well. It flows great too. Good luck!
I have used hotter coils on cars that went from NA to boosted to drive tighter gap plugs.....said cars also had distributors and relatively weak ignition. The LS 430/460 have very good setups already and I would really like to see these supposed changes doing anything with a new stock setup vs the aftermarket.
The coils will not do anything you are not picking up "low and mid range power" from coils the gains are negligible and can be attributed to air change or what have you during the dyno runs. Ditch the k&n filter also and do not use oil or oiled filters on the 430 they do eventually mess up the maf sensor.
Your mods will not do anything, you are running a stock ecu the most gains you will see is maybe 10hp and 10 tq and thats it.
What brand headers are you using if you dont mind me asking?
Get a quantum auto tuned ecu they have specific tunes available for cars with different mods and it truly makes a difference and gives you gains without spending over $1000
The Coils and new Plugs will help. You should feel the difference improved throttle response on mild accelerations and top too. Funny that a bunch who have not used Hotter coils always go to the internet "it wont do nothing", always. There was just a report somewhere here, I think on the 460 motor dyno with hotter coils that showed some nice low to mid range gains, and top too. I would put in new plugs same as stock though, and the Becker coils too. As long as those Coils are matched for you engine. They will go great with the Headers and other Mods you have already.
I ran Hotter aftermarket coils on my GS460 and K&N. Many Lexus have used them in spite of the myths. It wont won't damage nothing. It should improve the Timing and KCLV. The K&N is no problem. Just keep it clean and Oiled well. It flows great too. Good luck!
How is a air filter and different coils going to improve timing?
Just my .02 cents.... K&N air filters completely coated the inside of the intake piping on my 89 4Runner and my old 89 Landcruiser with a sticky oily coating that was damn near impossible to clean off, and these were filters that were oiled properly from the factory.
Decided to switch to Wix filters afterwards. Both of those trucks had the older style potentiometer air vane sensors which were more tolerant of getting coated in junk than these newer hot wire MAFs.
There also is this video from project farm putting filters to the test. The K&Ns may flow well, but they don't filter worth a damn:
+1 on the poor filtering of K&N, installed in two cars and the following oil analysis had a significant change in silica readings. Those "filters" are quite poor in that regard.
Yamae has the background to know. A stock tune, with properly functioning coils/plugs, I don't see it as a worthwhile expense. If the car is being fed more fuel in combination with a tune then the improved capabilities in the ignition may be reasonable. A before-after dyno session would provide some numbers.
How is a air filter and different coils going to improve timing?
Ummmmm? Your 1st post declares without a doubt it wont work. You next post ask how? Why ask? lol!
May I ask if you understand KCLV at all?
So I will not do the work to show the Dynos on the 430 & 460 that showed 6-9 hp with certain hotter the coils. One such Dyno is here on CL. Too much "it won't work posting here". Won't even try to change one's mind. I will ask for some back up of the wont work? Anyone have any data showing no gain or a loss? We can possible detect why? Now if you don't think that KCLV is important for the Coils then much to understand about the gains or decrease the Factory ECU allows, and the combustion, ignition, complete burn, and Knock sensors, O2 sensors. Lots to understand and consider with the doubts. I would just love to see any data anyone has to share? I only owned a 430 & 460 with different Stages of Mods all the way to a Nitrous kit, and before in N/A.
The K&N is Gause and other Fiber. Take a dirty oiled shop rag and wring it out? Or put it over a blower and show me the oil it blows out please? Anything will go wrong if you don't know how it properly perform it. There is a proper way to clean and oil. Then there is the improper than some do with too much oil, and a bad result. I can Oil a fabric or rag or Gauze or other absorbent material. Use it as filtration, and months later it will still be oiled but not dissipate off into the air elsewhere. Yes I understand the other result.
Too much dirt can also be a result of Condition driven and the Oil filter. Or the length of the oil change interval. Also a improper service of the K&N on cleaning, Oiling, and time. And... yes you need to clean the excess oil off out the Box wrapped in plastic new Before you install it.
Cus those who have not, shared that it would not? I'm still waiting on the will not do anything Data. Funny as it is, one mentioned Quantum auto as Liget for gains. Quantum is one of many who showed Hotter Coil gains Dyno'd from stock. Can't wait to see the Dyno's from the posters?
Lexus did not designate a Coil for performance increase. It was mild, for Longevity. There is nothing special about the Stock system. It's a LS430. What are they famous for? Reliability, Longevity? Think about it?
Ummmmm? Your 1st post declares without a doubt it wont work. You next post ask how? Why ask? lol!
May I ask if you understand KCLV at all?
So I will not do the work to show the Dynos on the 430 & 460 that showed 6-9 hp with certain hotter the coils. One such Dyno is here on CL. Too much "it won't work posting here". Won't even try to change one's mind. I will ask for some back up of the wont work? Anyone have any data showing no gain or a loss? We can possible detect why? Now if you don't think that KCLV is important for the Coils then much to understand about the gains or decrease the Factory ECU allows, and the combustion, ignition, complete burn, and Knock sensors, O2 sensors. Lots to understand and consider with the doubts. I would just love to see any data anyone has to share? I only owned a 430 & 460 with different Stages of Mods all the way to a Nitrous kit, and before in N/A.
The K&N is Gause and other Fiber. Take a dirty oiled shop rag and wring it out? Or put it over a blower and show me the oil it blows out please? Anything will go wrong if you don't know how it properly perform it. There is a proper way to clean and oil. Then there is the improper than some do with too much oil, and a bad result. I can Oil a fabric or rag or Gauze or other absorbent material. Use it as filtration, and months later it will still be oiled but not dissipate off into the air elsewhere. Yes I understand the other result.
Too much dirt can also be a result of Condition driven and the Oil filter. Or the length of the oil change interval. Also a improper service of the K&N on cleaning, Oiling, and time. And... yes you need to clean the excess oil off out the Box wrapped in plastic new Before you install it.
KCLV is a mainly a function of fuel knock, if you have extra noise in the engine it can also falsely drag it down. That's why it's such a issue with the 460 since the chains tend to wear out if you don't change the oil often enough and they make noise. Same with the shorter pistons
A hotter coil is not going to do anything if you aren't tuned with more aggressive ignition timing on harder to ignite fuel. It is pointless unless you change the operating window sucks the ECU will just recalibrate itself to remain at stock targets.
I did actually run my original 220k mile OE coils at the track, then switched to 30k mile OE coils and there was zero difference with 3 passes on each. Literally no change at all and the older coils were not throwing as much energy out as the newer ones.
An oiled filter doesn't filter well at all, it just tries to stop some of the dirt and the oiling is a way to allow it to grab something at all. They are pointless and will do nothing but increase wear, if you want to improve the intake flow just remove the filter entirely. Don't half *** it and get the worst of both worlds with an oiled filter. RR racing even tried to come up with a better filter system for the ISF/GSF/RCF and ended up just saying the stock box was the best option unless you got forced induction.
The oil change interval doesn't have any effect at all on intake air particulate filtering so I have no idea what you are talking about there.
A 6-9 hp increase like you insist happened is not a valid claim. You would need to take new coils vs the "performance" coils with preferably a new set of plugs to check if there is any difference. A coil is a coil, a spark is a spark if they output the same amount of volts and amps then the result at the spark plug will be the same. If you measure the aftermarket coils there is usually no difference vs stock in their outputs.
If it was such a difference then please explain why the turbo guys that push 150-200 over stock with no hardware changes manage to still have ignition? Why don't any of them use stronger coils? It's because it doesn't matter as long as the stock system is working properly, modern coil on plug systems have more than enough ignition power up to and including the needed amount to lite off E85 at 20+psi on a DI engine. I have a car that does exactly that
Ummmmm? Your 1st post declares without a doubt it wont work. You next post ask how? Why ask? lol!
May I ask if you understand KCLV at all?
So I will not do the work to show the Dynos on the 430 & 460 that showed 6-9 hp with certain hotter the coils. One such Dyno is here on CL. Too much "it won't work posting here". Won't even try to change one's mind. I will ask for some back up of the wont work? Anyone have any data showing no gain or a loss? We can possible detect why? Now if you don't think that KCLV is important for the Coils then much to understand about the gains or decrease the Factory ECU allows, and the combustion, ignition, complete burn, and Knock sensors, O2 sensors. Lots to understand and consider with the doubts. I would just love to see any data anyone has to share? I only owned a 430 & 460 with different Stages of Mods all the way to a Nitrous kit, and before in N/A.
The K&N is Gause and other Fiber. Take a dirty oiled shop rag and wring it out? Or put it over a blower and show me the oil it blows out please? Anything will go wrong if you don't know how it properly perform it. There is a proper way to clean and oil. Then there is the improper than some do with too much oil, and a bad result. I can Oil a fabric or rag or Gauze or other absorbent material. Use it as filtration, and months later it will still be oiled but not dissipate off into the air elsewhere. Yes I understand the other result.
Too much dirt can also be a result of Condition driven and the Oil filter. Or the length of the oil change interval. Also a improper service of the K&N on cleaning, Oiling, and time. And... yes you need to clean the excess oil off out the Box wrapped in plastic new Before you install it.
I googled and searched there is no info or dyno charts about the coils you are literally arguing against math and science at this point, so unless you can show dyno charts I am calling bs and saying you have no idea what you are talkimg about and are spreading misinformation.
Also I believe gentleman who worked for Toyota (Yamea?) commented and said there was many many issues on the celsiors because of the oiled k&n filters.
Also 6-9 hp is nothing you will not feel it, as stated your "6-9 hp gains" could be contributed to many things air pressure change etc while doing the dyno runs and yes I understand what kclv is.
Just my .02 cents.... K&N air filters completely coated the inside of the intake piping on my 89 4Runner and my old 89 Landcruiser with a sticky oily coating that was damn near impossible to clean off, and these were filters that were oiled properly from the factory.
Decided to switch to Wix filters afterwards. Both of those trucks had the older style potentiometer air vane sensors which were more tolerant of getting coated in junk than these newer hot wire MAFs.
There also is this video from project farm putting filters to the test. The K&Ns may flow well, but they don't filter worth a damn:
Thanks for all the replies guys. Ok I'll bite back. Here you go:
From your Vid and a Engineers response. Your You Tubers Makers (Project Farm) response to comments on Flour poured in on the K&N. Not exactly how engine Intake suction and car speed air flow works, but if you want to test flour poured on top of Engine intake filters Go for it ok!
"I was an air filter engineer for many years a long time ago at one of the brands you tested. You do a great job, as always and I applaud your very logical and thoughtful approach. However, I'd like to make a few comments about this report. 1. Flour or powder do not make good test mediums. They tend to agglomerate, and in any case do not compare well with industry standard contaminants. 2. During testing, an even distribution of contamination introduction is critical. Thus, semi-random placement of the test medium can drastically affect the test outcome. A typical test set-up involves an aspirated cloud of contaminant for more consistent and even dispersal to assure a more realistic particle size distribution. 3. Industry standard contaminant particle size is inversely proportional to particle count. In fact, the number of particles increases dramatically (exponentially) as size goes down. 4. Engine wear potential is attributable to particle make-up, i.e. Is it silica or organics, etc., and quantity. Thus, engine wear risk drops dramatically with particle size. Internally moving engine parts, especially rings & valves, are not usually affected by very small particles in small quantities. Five microns is about 1/100000 inches. Concern for wear begins around 10,000 microns or below .005". 5. Flow is generally concentrated in any filter, despite shape and flow diverting techniques used. Placement of contaminant on the filter media by hand is less realistic. 6. Contamination which agglomerates will increase pressure drop and increase contamination removal efficiency giving erroneous results. As a function of actual wear potential, the K&N, though inefficient according to your test, may actually be the best protector because of its affinity for the larger silica particles seen in real life. Still, your test report is very persuasive! Thank you for reading!"
The Project Farm You Tubers reply was - "Thanks for the suggestion." LOL!
Another point - Reply on your You Tubers - David Vizard is a well respect top Guy in Air/fuel - Combustion Chambers. Not a Shop Tech.
K&N is the best, watch David Vizard's video on it, in his flow testing, it showed to not be any better than a paper filter, but on the engine it performed better, called K&N and they had observed the same thing but didn't know why, turns out, the engines vibrations create motion between the layers of mesh, allowing greater airflow but still restricting particles. at a stand still imagine the waffle patterns interlacing are closed, but during high vibration the patterns shift diametrically allowing airflow but deterring particles.
The Project Farm You Tubers reply was - "Thanks for the suggestion." LOL!
Now with all due respect to lack of knowledge. I'll give just one of many, but I'm not going to do the work, or debate. So far Zero Data from so many? Not one bit of Valid Data Guys? Really? Again I request any Data that can be shared, and I wont go back and 4th with calling bs. No Data is No Data. Anyone?
03-26-22, 10:32 AM
Becker Performance- Ignition Coil *Rare part*
I'm still waiting on the will not do anything Data. Funny as it is, one mentioned Quantum auto as Liget for gains. Quantum is one of many who showed Hotter Coil gains Dyno'd from stock. Can't wait to see the Dyno's from the posters?