edtbjon

Hi all.
I have a 95 LS400 (UFC20) which for the last month or so have occationally refused to start without a lot of patience. When I turn the ingnition on there are a few silent clicks here and there inside the coupe, but nothing from the engine room. When I try to start it nothing happens. But then, sometimes after the second "shut down/ ignition" cycle, there's a definite click inside the coupe and the engine will start like nothing have ever been wrong with it. I also noticed that the dash lights (for the rev and speedometer) don't light up unless there is that definite click and the engine will start.
Yesterday I was driving in the most busy roads in all of Sweden (mid-Stockholm) and had the somewhat chocking experience of the engine suddenly dying on me, the dash lights went out and I think that the ignition died. I did get the car to the side without being hit and it did start up again after a few tries. This happened a few times and then I could drive on to my destination.
I guess that behaviour rules out a faulty starter or even a defect starter relay. After searching and reading up on this and other forums, I think it's a faulty ignition base plate. If anyone have experienced anything similar and have a solution please chime in.
So, with the excellent pictures of ******* being banned a few years ago, does anyone have experience with how to replace the ignition base plate? What does it take except from a very flexible back spine.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

Your check engine light should be on so what are the codes the car is giving you?

dicer

The very first thing to do, is make sure the key is off and in your hand. Then disconnect the battery terminals and clean them real good and make sure the wires at the clamp are also clean and no corrosion between the crimp. Use a good protectant or Vaseline on the terminals and clamps before reconnecting them. Also check the ground at the engine make sure its clean and tight. If the battery is old have it checked.

What do you mean by ignition base plate? A part inside the ignition switch?

edtbjon

I've checked the battery connections and they are clean and reasonably tight. (I which they were tighter, but they are as good as they have been over the last 6 years.) Besides, I always have electrical power and the battery is fully charged.
The ignition base plate is the electric rotating switch on the back of the ignition lock, which have a multicable connector on the side of it.



About the engine codes, I did have the engine light on when the engine died, but once I restarted the engine, the engine warning light was black again. I'll check if there are any codes stored though.

Yamae

Sounds like you already found out the reason why. I have seen some failed ignition switches among old Celsiors.

edtbjon

Well, maybe. I just disassembled the lower panels, air ducts etc. from underneath the steering wheel and found that piece some 5-6" inside from the keyhole. I.e. it's a PITA to replace, as it's held in place with a couple of screws (ordinary philip heads??) from the front. Of course there a a lot of other items that covers/ get in the way of those screws.
But, I got the contact piece (8 pole) out and put it into my new part and I still had no ignition and no start when turning the new piece. (But the radio and ventilation etc. worked as expected. There were no lights on the main instruments though and these are usually lit when I get ignition.)

Update: I went down to check for error codes (my car have the old style (UFC11) round connector where you can short e.g. Te1 and E1 according to LexLS.com). I didn't manage to get any codes out , but found that after leaving the ignition in the "ON" position for a while all of a sudden (some 30-60 seconds) got ignition on (i.e. the instrumentation lights went on with a distinct click) and the engine could start.

dicer

If that unit is a switch then that is what it is called, not a plate of some sort.

edtbjon

It is indeed a starter/ignition switch. Languages can sometimes be a barrier.

I shot a short video of what happens. In that video I only turned the key to ignition mode and waited for some 25-30 seconds. When the dash lit up I turned the starter. (When the ignition works properly it also starts "clean", instead of how badly it started this time.)
Youtube link:

dicer

It seems like a cluster problem, since it looks like you turn the key and then a huge delay for it to come on the rest of the way. This is a good one for Mr Yamae, I am not sure if the cluster problem can also affect other electricals, like ecu operation, I know the newer the cars are more interconnected between the various ecu's with in the car.

edtbjon

I'm currently browsing through that "All my cazy Lexus issues Solved ..." thread. (Phew... ) Even though the cluster is "hesitant" to lite up, it seems like a very strange issue. Does the cluster have to work in order for the car to have ignition? Btw, when the engine cut in the middle of that busy highway, the engine warning light came on.
Anyhow, all input is indeed very welcome! (I'm just pondering, hoping not to loose all of my hair in the process. )
I do have a spare ECU, which will go in the car this afternoon. (I also ordered a set of new capacitors, according to the list in that "... crazy Lexus issues ..." thread. Luckily, this small town used to host an old telephone factory. I.e. there should be someone around who's really skilled with a soldering iron.)

edtbjon

I went ahead and replaced the ECU and put back all the panels etc. on the drivers side. Now everything seems normal, but there have been periods of 4-5 days before when everything worked and then it got back to no-ignition etc. I'll report back on this in a weeks time, hopefully with a "SOLVED" tag to it.
(I do hope that it takes care of the milage per gallon (though we say it different in Sweden ) too. It's been some 20-30% higher than normal lately. I thought it was the M+S tires and driving short distances in cold weather that made it, but it was still too high in my mind.)

dicer

Is all the no ignition related to the delayed instrument cluster problem?

edtbjon

Well, what made me realize that I in fact had no ignition when the cluster went black was when the ignition cut in that busy highway (and a few times on less busy roads just afterwards). There is obviously no ignition unless the cluster lites up. But I don't think that there was no ignition because the cluster was black, rather the other way around (i.e. there was no light because the ignition was cut).
It would be nice to find some kind of "boot up" sequence list, as there seem to be a lot of things happening when the key is turned.

dicer

When you first turn it on you get some of the cluster, it just takes awhile to get the rest of it. The initial cluster activity is right when you turn on the ignition switch so that makes me think its something else, as a switch is an either on or off type of device. I don't know if or how the cluster is linked to the rest of the electronics in the car.

edtbjon

Sorry, problem NOT solved. I took the car for a spin today and it was back to the delay in getting ignition on. At least I'm not trying to turn the ignition on and off until I get ignition. Now I know it's just a matter of waiting for a while. It that was the only problem it wouldn't be too bad, but again, I still have that ignition cut in the middle of a busy highway fresh in mind.