When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
What about your 1st or 2nd gen LS do you love and appreciate over newer car designs?
Forgive me if this has been done before, but I wanted to take a poll on this and see how it applies to, for better or worse, cars of today.
For instance, I love the low front cowl of my LS. While my 95 LS does not have the lowest cowl (like 90's era Honda Accords), it is low by todays standards.
Also, I love the flush side glass, which for some reason you don't really see anymore in today's cars. Even late 80's, 90's Chevy pickups had flush glass. Was there a downside to this design, because it did improve aerodynamics and help reduce wind noise, and it looks great.
Another thing I love, is that wonderful little vent under the steering wheel which I call crotch coolers. Again, not many vehicles have those anymore and they work better than cooled seats.
I know these cars are getting close to 30 years and older, but what things about yours do you love over newer cars. Is it the profile, the visibility, the smoothness, the ride, etc. Also, what about this car continues to make it special to you?
Leaving out the "too many computers in modern cars!" because the LS has 18 billion of them, let's get to the specifics. Stuff which is unavailable at any price in a comparable modern car.
Hydraulic power steering. Even the best modern power steer systems (I'm looking at you Porsche) do not come close to a well engineered rack, even if over-boosted. They feel worse, they provide worse feedback, they filter out more road texture, they don't weight up naturally.
Open bottom steering wheel. I can drive the car under-handed. Most cars put a spoke at 6-oclock and you can't.
Interior quality. The quality of the leather, the soft-touch of the plastics is unmatched in any car I've ever been in. Maybe Bentley or a Roller can hit the bar - but it's unbelievable the quality of the leathers and the plastics and the fabrics in the LS. I cannot believe how durable they are, and how they resist squeaks and rattles even now 25 years later.
The greenhouse is nice. This means the metal part of the door is low, leaving lots of glass, meaning visibility is quite good. The reason modern cars aren't like this however is because of crash safety. So this one is a 50\50 for me.
Buttons to control everything. You don't realize how nice they are until you don't have them anymore, or worse, they're haptic feedback pads. Being able to trigger a function with physical muscle memory without needing to take your eyes off the road is a huge plus, it's a safety issue that you need to dig into the screens to change the climate control on some of these newer cars.
No touch screen. I've only rented cars that have them and I don't really like them but they're here to stay, I'm afraid. At least the newer Lexus models ditched the remote touch pad.
2021 Lexus LC500
Yes, it has the remote touch pad but I still want a pre-owned LC.
i'll start with the computers and the software that runs everything because that to me is a big part of the recipe... everything just works like you'd expect, and hope it would... it's very apparent that the programming of the engine and transmission is very efficient and highly optimized, it's extremely rare that you don't get exactly the gear you were expecting and for it to upshift right when you're hoping it will with imperceptible smoothness
you don't even really think about how computerized the car is since it's all simple dedicated circuitry and not some central unit that gets overloaded and can start lagging... also you get the sense that the computers are there solely to improve your experience but not try to make decisions for you... step on the gas and it GOES without hesitation, and there's enough torque that you basically never need to use anything but 5th gear on the highway
the last of the electronics i'll touch on is the audio system, which is still INCREDIBLE to this day! people get all hyped when a press release comes out highlighting how the new range rover (or could be something else fancy, no need to polarize the thread over that lol) has 562 speakers and 87,000 watts omg omg! but the LS is a perfect lesson in how much thought and planning truly goes into creating a superb audio experience
starting with the head unit itself, the quality of audio processor used is just unmatched, and the understanding of where exactly to place the speakers and how the sound waves will interact with the overall shape of the cabin and materials used... for something that's only 215 watts i still don't get how they managed to get so much oomph out of that system while maintaining such quality and clarity of sound
finally that magical ride quality... such a beautiful balance of comfort and confidence, but the goal is clearly still to make a luxury car and not an autocross machine... however even when you start to push on the car will still hang in there and maintain composure, to me that's really where it sets itself apart from the ES and where all that extra engineering really become apparent... you can sail through sweeping interstate curves at triple digit speeds and never feel like you need anything more than a single finger on the wheel
possibly most crucially though, unlike today's cars an LS 400 is truly meant to last a very long time, and just seemed to come at the perfect time in history when such a project was possible
Leaving out the "too many computers in modern cars!" because the LS has 18 billion of them, let's get to the specifics. Stuff which is unavailable at any price in a comparable modern car.
Hydraulic power steering. Even the best modern power steer systems (I'm looking at you Porsche) do not come close to a well engineered rack, even if over-boosted. They feel worse, they provide worse feedback, they filter out more road texture, they don't weight up naturally.
Open bottom steering wheel. I can drive the car under-handed. Most cars put a spoke at 6-oclock and you can't.
Interior quality. The quality of the leather, the soft-touch of the plastics is unmatched in any car I've ever been in. Maybe Bentley or a Roller can hit the bar - but it's unbelievable the quality of the leathers and the plastics and the fabrics in the LS. I cannot believe how durable they are, and how they resist squeaks and rattles even now 25 years later
The greenhouse is nice. This means the metal part of the door is low, leaving lots of glass, meaning visibility is quite good. The reason modern cars aren't like this however is because of crash safety. So this one is a 50\50 for me.
Buttons to control everything. You don't realize how nice they are until you don't have them anymore, or worse, they're haptic feedback pads. Being able to trigger a function with physical muscle memory without needing to take your eyes off the road is a huge plus, it's a safety issue that you need to dig into the screens to change the climate control on some of these newer cars.
Agree with all of it. I've had many vehicles and would always upgrade my sound systems so I've taken apart many interiors through the years. In fixing some stuff on my 95, I'm blown away not only by how well put together it is, but how the fabrics, carpets and leather are holding up. Even the plastic clips holding interior panels. New vehicle panels are held together by basically a one time use piece of cheap plastic that disintegrates after 2 years in the heat.
I too like the green house area and the visibility it provides. I actually felt naked and exposed when I first got her. I immediately tinted the windows because of the Florida heat. I disagree a little with beltline designs being raised for safety. Well, maybe indirectly. We lost the low front cowl designs in late 90's early 2000's because Europe changed the pedestrian front crash zone rules requiring automakers to have more space between the engine and hood providing somewhat of a pedestrian crumple zone if they were to get hit. That screwed the US because car makers weren't going to do separate engineering. Raising those front cowls had an effect on the side beltlines of cars for styling reasons. Cars also got a lot taller later and that affected styling as well, and even later, we now have gone to form over function.
Sorry, got off topic. Buttons, I love buttons. Muscle memory is a thing and something that's nearly impossible to master with a touch screen and multiple menu layers. Everything is built into and controled by touch screens now. More distractions when we need less. More cost when it breaks, and more possibilities for obselete and incompatible technology. Jeep's original Uconect ran on 3G, which rendered all app controls useless (like unlocking doors or starting with your car- even voice texting and reading) and ceased when 3G was shut down. The LS400 has just the right amount of buttons and nicely spaced, I might add. (I did have to add a backup camera though. The neck doesn't do the exorcist thing as well as it use to).
The added benefit of a car that's more analog than digital is the actual process of driving. I want and love to drive, I don't want to be driven. I don't want a computer to brake or steer for me. That's just more crap that can fail and cost money. Even worse, you get used to it and don't remember what to do when it does fail. Sorry officer, I'm in a rental and I'm used to my car stopping by itself when I'm having 3 text conversations. Sorry for the rant- (I do mobile xrays and have to drive all day in south florida so I could fill a book about the craziness I see everyday) I'm just opposed to technology that gives drivers an excuse to pay even less attention to the road and their surroundings instead of actually driving. But it is another reason I love my 95. Lol
I'm going to push back against the computers. The LS has a ton of computers too, it's far from a analogue car in that manner.
And another thing about the audio - the stock audio system is good, sure. But if your speakers are original, it's performing at a tiny fraction of it's capability. The membranes get tired and worn out after 3 decades. They sound SIGNIFIGANTLY worse than new speakers do. I did a direct A\B test when I replaced half the stereo in my car and left the other half stock. It's absolutely astounding the difference.
Oh and I forgot one more thing - the car just drives well & predictably. There is a ton of body roll - which is whatever, it's just the nature of the ride quality. But the precision of placing the car and how stable footed it is feels quite nice. Even if I'm hustling it or go over bumps, nothing upsets the car. The sophistication of the suspension is quite nice for more than just ride quality.
Oh, and your new car sells your data. Like, systemically and all over the place.
Nissan reserves the right to share and sell “preferences, characteristics, psychological trends, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence, abilities, and aptitudes” to data brokers, law enforcement, and other third parties.
Volkswagen, for example, collects your driving behaviors such as your seatbelt and braking habits and pairs that with details such as age and gender for targeted advertising.
Kia’s privacy policy reserves the right to monitor your “sex life”
Subaru, for example, says that by being a passenger in the car, you are considered a “user” who has given the company consent to harvest information about you.
And another thing about the audio - the stock audio system is good, sure. But if your speakers are original, it's performing at a tiny fraction of it's capability. The membranes get tired and worn out after 3 decades. They sound SIGNIFIGANTLY worse than new speakers do. I did a direct A\B test when I replaced half the stereo in my car and left the other half stock. It's absolutely astounding the difference.
yea i've wondered about this... i think my speakers still sound great, but i'll start daydreaming thinking about what it must've been like to pop a high quality CD into a (then) brand new nakamichi sound system (i have the standard pioneer which is still excellent)
from 1999 to 2011 my grandparents owned the car from new, and would pretty much only listen to AM or the philharmonic on relatively low volume lol... and since i've gotten the car in 2011 i pretty much have never turned the volume up past 1/3, only occasionally to demonstrate to a new rider how loud this thing can go haha
i really don't wanna go aftermarket on speakers since the stock ones are such high quality, and aren't they housed in like a big box within the door? i wouldn't wanna lose that, which surely plays a key role in the sound dispersion
It doesn't matter how well taken are of they are - the speakers have a shelf life just like any other rubber part in the car before they degrade and start performing worse.
I'm more a home audio and headphone guy so I don't know a ton about speakers and setups and wires and amps and enclosures. IDK what is\isn't in there. But I do know enough that after 25 years, it wouldn't surprise me to see your membranes dried out and crackly.
I thought my car sounded wonderful too before I replaced the speakers. It did. But there is always another level.
It doesn't matter how well taken are of they are - the speakers have a shelf life just like any other rubber part in the car before they degrade and start performing worse.
I'm more a home audio and headphone guy so I don't know a ton about speakers and setups and wires and amps and enclosures. IDK what is\isn't in there. But I do know enough that after 25 years, it wouldn't surprise me to see your membranes dried out and crackly.
I thought my car sounded wonderful too before I replaced the speakers. It did. But there is always another level.
ahh so we can find your setup on /r/audiophile ? haha
one of these days i wanna get around to a serious detail/partial restoration, there's really nothing bad or broken and basically any complaints can be addressed with well what do you expect, it's 25 years old!
400 fanboy - If you're talking about the foam rubber surrounds that tie the edges of the speaker cones to the frames, kits for those are available. The speakers do have to come out, but the installation of the new foam isn't all that difficult. I've done it for home speakers and it does work.
BTW, the buzzing that one hears from speakers with disintegrated foam surrounds is the edge of the speaker cone vibrating without the damping of the foam. Unless the cone is disintegrating as well, the speaker should be fine after re-foaming.
Oh, and if you have a cell phone your data is probably already scattered around the web in more places than you can possibly imagine. Just sayin'.
The foam is just one part - you're right it's also the cone itself.
It's one of those things, if you're pulling the door to get the speaker... you're doing like 90% of the work, so you may as well just replace the whole speaker anyway.
And as with everything, there is deterioration in performance that happens. And it's not just in that foam or the cone.
They are a finely tuned and balanced set of components and will wear out with use\time. They'll still, like, work. But if you want the best - refreshing tired components can really transform the experience for someone who is in tune.
And not only this - but as good as these speakers are - modern technology really goes a long way. They still have kept developing these things and new kits are just wonderful.
I have the Pioneer version in mine. I haven't gotten around to pulling the panel yet, but I'm pretty sure from pictures I've seen that the speaker cones are paper and the surrounds are foam. Foam is notorious for disintegrating with time and heat. Paper cones are susceptible to the same as well as moisture. That being said, I hear no Cone break-up at high volumes in mine. The true magic in the system though, was the tuning that was done. Pop in a well recorded CD and all I can say is "wow" for a stock system that's 28 years old. The openness, the stereo separation, and high frequency response is still there. Vocal and instrument placement is great for what it is. What they did with only 7 speakers and tuning sounds better than some of today's "high end" factory systems with more power and 11 speakers. I have redone many sound systems in my vehicles over the years. In my Jeep, I currently have 4 high end amps, DSP, 12 speakers, about 200 pounds of sound deadening, too many hours spent tuning, plus a few other things, and while the Lexus is no where near as loud, it does do a good job of keeping up sound quality-wise. Again, that's not bad for something 28 years old and factory at that. I can only imagine what it sounded like new. Those with the Nakamichi systems can correct me, but those speakers look like they have rubber surrounds and either treated paper or polypropylene cones. Those usually hold up better. Those with paper cones, if they're in good shape, can replace the foam surrounds if you want to keep your Lexus stock original. It's pretty cheap and fairly easy for those inclined. I replaced the foam on my father's SC430's Mark Levinson system. Even at low miles and being garage kept, the foam surrounds were completely toast and the resulting bass notes sounded terrible. After replacement, the system sounded amazing. (I can't wait to inherit that car- It's immaculate. Not even a single stone chip, scuff, scrape, or flaw in the paint).
If you do replace your speakers with aftermarket ones, please make sure you get ones that match the factory ohm load and close to the same efficiency rating so you don't throw off the volume levels and affect the tuning of the stock system (unless you don't care or don't have the ear to notice the difference like those that think CD's and FM radio sound exactly the same).
Going back to the original question, what I love about the car compared to newer cars
: a) the build quality of my '98 is off the charts good, appreciate all the little details including quality of materials, reliability of everything, and as previously stated that it was built to last. After doing a lot of maintenance on my car since I bought it I have the sense that it truly would last indefinitely if taken care of. The undercarriage, leather, paint, plastic surfaces, headliner are like new, after 25 years and 147,000 miles That just is not true of today's cars.
b) the simplicity of the design, ergonomics, visibility from the cockpit in all directions. I have not had the need to open the owners manual once to familiarize myself with how things work, with the exception of looking for an explanation and illustration of the CD loading mechanism since when I bought the car the removable cassette was missing (picked up a NEW OEM cassette for around $ 50. Buttons are good. Thankfully mine does not have the navigation option with the obsolete screen display.
09-05-23, 03:39 PM
What about your 1st or 2nd gen LS do you love and appreciate over newer car designs?
