When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
So, can someone bottom line this thread?I read it all and the other one.
Did some damge their engine going 10k plus with the yzza4? Was that only with non sysnthetic?
What are the conclusions? Wix oil filter and m1ep are good for 10k?
Results are still pending... Some of us are trying M1EP and the RLI recommended in the other thread to compare them. I've chosen to stick with the TRD filter since I'd already picked up several of them.
I'm currently a bit over 7.5k on my M1EP with a couple track days and will changing/testing soon, then trying the RLI for a similar mileage.
Results are still pending... Some of us are trying M1EP and the RLI recommended in the other thread to compare them. I've chosen to stick with the TRD filter since I'd already picked up several of them.
I'm currently a bit over 7.5k on my M1EP with a couple track days and will changing/testing soon, then trying the RLI for a similar mileage.
Thanks. Look forward to hearing your results.
Just looking around on the Bob is the oil guy site and those guys seem pretty confident in the Blackstone lab. I’m not doubting Danial, but why’d he challenge that lab here and not a place like that forum which may offer some rebuttal.
Some of those posters “seem” very knowledgeable about oil and testing. Just wondering. I’m guessing some did independent research and have decided they were insufficient.
Fair... Yes, Blackstone is super popular because they give you at worst a decent approximation, at least regarding most of the metals, and the price of entry is as cheap as anyone. But it's no secret many of their processes and pieces of lab kit are antiquated. I've seen folks on bitog who share Daniel's concerns. When Daniel shared a lengthy voice review from legend Terry Dyson himself (in which he referenced Daniel directly), that was enough for me. Terry is one of the two original founders of bitog... FWIW, my mom recently retired as a forensic toxicologist and lent much of her GCMS knowledge and passion to me over the years. As a mechanical engineer, it's all quite interesting to me.
Fair... Yes, Blackstone is super popular because they give you at worst a decent approximation, at least regarding most of the metals, and the price of entry is as cheap as anyone. But it's no secret many of their processes and pieces of lab kit are antiquated. I've seen folks on bitog who share Daniel's concerns. When Daniel shared a lengthy voice review from legend Terry Dyson himself (in which he referenced Daniel directly), that was enough for me. Terry is one of the two original founders of bitog... FWIW, my mom recently retired as a forensic toxicologist and lent much of her GCMS knowledge and passion to me over the years. As a mechanical engineer, it's all quite interesting to me.
Yes. Very interesting. I’m not questioning any of the conclusions. The debate would be nice to hear regardless. It’s clear Danial really knows his stuff. I’d more like to hear what some of those on bitog would say. The seem very confident in their very long oci’s. Recently I sold my wife’s Nissan Rogue. I was going 15k on the mobile so and filter. At 100k I developed a leaky valve cover and was getting a check engine for a failed catalytic converter. These most likely had zero to do with the long oci, but they worried me enough combined with the findings that Blackstone wasn’t reliable and may have led some into thinking their engines were fine with the long oci’s. I look forward to hearing some results so I can decide if I want to go the 10k Toyota recommends on our new Highlander and decide if I want to go longer on my ISF. I’m using the Yzza4 now, but have bought a few wix and decide if I want to go longer than 5k or just be safe and stay with that. I don’t track my car and am pretty tame with it. 2008 with 50k.
Originally Posted by 540 RAT - Tech Facts, not Myths
11. 5W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved = 117,799 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This was the latest current version of this oil when tested at the end of 2015. This oil is used by a number of Auto Makers worldwide as factory fill oil in their High Performance cars. The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.
118. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN synthetic = 83,263 psi
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm
I put it in my IS and GS on Daniel's recommendation, and will not do that again. While Daniel likes to focus on the fuel dilution issue, the fact is, no one can fix that without a tune. You can only buy an oil more tolerant of fuel dilution, but you can't stop it at the source. If it really is the issue at hand, you would expect to see significantly different iron numbers between oils on the same service interval under the same use pattern, but I suspect most people change their oil far too soon for fuel dilution to be a causative issue for power loss. Also, none of us are sweating a few hp. Race teams sweat everything, so they would be the ones who really benefit from the proper tune and the potential power maintenance it represents.
The difference between the analysis I got from Tribologik and Blackstone on the last GS F sample gave me pause. Everything was different. With only two sources, it's impossible to even infer which might be accurate, if either of them is. I have a number of prepaid sample kits from Blackstone, and I am continuing using them for now. If I ever get really concerned about this, I will send samples to at least 5 labs and look at the results to see where they group and then pick a lab from the group, not from the outlier(s).
M1 EP is a greatly inferior oil to regular M1.
I put it in my IS and GS on Daniel's recommendation, and will not do that again. While Daniel likes to focus on the fuel dilution issue, the fact is, no one can fix that without a tune. You can only buy an oil more tolerant of fuel dilution, but you can't stop it at the source. If it really is the issue at hand, you would expect to see significantly different iron numbers between oils on the same service interval under the same use pattern, but I suspect most people change their oil far too soon for fuel dilution to be a causative issue for power loss. Also, none of us are sweating a few hp. Race teams sweat everything, so they would be the ones who really benefit from the proper tune and the potential power maintenance it represents.
The difference between the analysis I got from Tribologik and Blackstone on the last GS F sample gave me pause. Everything was different. With only two sources, it's impossible to even infer which might be accurate, if either of them is. I have a number of prepaid sample kits from Blackstone, and I am continuing using them for now. If I ever get really concerned about this, I will send samples to at least 5 labs and look at the results to see where they group and then pick a lab from the group, not from the outlier(s).
Ok! Here's my Blackstone report. Good report overall, which is comforting since I bought used and always suspect previous owner maintenance, despite the "perfect" service records via Lexus' database. I'd even been so careful to have my oil changed by the only Toyota Service Advisor I know who also owns an F (same one who said RPF-1's in 18x10 +38 will clear the stock brakes, despite many nay-sayers here to the contrary. I've seen them, and they fit!), and yet his tech used the whole 12qts of RLI I gave him. Honest mistake since they were in gallon jugs, but I was his last job, and he was clearly in a hurry to clock out. Said advisor buddy was very upset and embarrassed, and given I'd bought enough RLI for exactly 2 OC's, I wasn't happy either. He was quick to take responsibility and make it right, though.
Anyhow, given the mild over-heating I had during extended track sessions in 100F TX heat last summer at CoTA, the oil held up pretty well. The Ti and Na are concerning, but as mentioned by Blackstone, wear numbers don't support coolant contamination. As they also suggested, a previous fill of Mobil Super Synthetic would explain it (See MSS VOA), although the service lady who answered the phone at Park Place Lexus Grapevine insists they use Mobil 1. Hmmmmm.... Fingers crossed it goes down on this fill of RLI. I'll try Amsoil EA next from your recommendation Lance, and then perhaps "regular" Mobil 1 5W-30.
Here's what I saw with Mobil 1 EP. Nothing special, or significantly different than M 1 conventional. There is a somewhat higher level of iron than M 1 if you extrapolate to 12k miles, which stands to reason if the film strength is not as good. I reduced the change interval specifically because I wasn't impressed with the large difference in film strength between M 1 and M1 EP.
Results are in for RLI's 5w-30. It performed quite well, it is number 4 behind the Amsoil Signature Series in load testing, and even at 275F, it only lost 0.7% of its load capacity. Daniel was right about it being really good oil. Now it just needs to produce used oil results after being in service.
Daniel is right about RAT's testing in one sense, but ultimately, oil performance in service starts with load capacity. If it isn't there from the start, it will only get worse over time.
I am now a convert. I'll be running RLI in all my engines with the very next oil change, and I'll be reporting back my lab results to show just how well it manages fuel dilution which I believe to be the biggest problem issue with our engines. Also - this is not the same oil Daniel linked (he specified the low ash), this is the oil RLI recommends for passenger cars:
Originally Posted by Renewable Lubricants website
Bio-SynXtra™ Super High Performance Motor Oil SAE 5W30 is a patented biobased motor oil. It is designed with additional enhancement chemistry to provide optimum performance in newer high output turbocharged and supercharged gasoline engines in passenger cars, vans, sport utility vehicles, and light duty trucks requiring ILSAC GF-5, API SN and SM (Lubricity Enhanced Energy Conserving Formula Meeting Newest Catalytic Converter Requirements).
Originally Posted by RAT 540's Blog
4. 5W30 Renewable Lubricants, Bio-SynXtra, Super High Performance motor oil = 130,436 psi
This patented biobased motor oil uses agricultural vegetable oil base stock, and is biodegradable. It claims to have been formulated with the latest additive package components added to that base stock. It has no Motor Oil Industry certifications, but claims the formula passed the tests required for API SN. It claims superior wear protection and high temperature stability, both of which proved to be true in my Engineering tests. It also claims to have a very high Viscosity Index value, which helps against fuel dilution concerns. The higher the Viscosity Index value, the less the oil’s viscosity is reduced as it heats up.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested Summer 2018.The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category.I also went on to test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil had only an extremely small 0.7% drop in capability. Even at that elevated temperature, it produced 129,486 psi, which still kept this much hotter oil in the FANTASTIC Wear Protection Category. I also tested this oil for its onset of thermal breakdown point, which was 275*F.This was the first biobased motor oil I ever tested. And its performance was EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE. These results probably surprise a lot of people, since this oil wasn’t even made from petroleum base stock. So it appears, there could be a very bright future for biobased motor oil, if they are formulated well.And the test data produced by this biobased oil, further backs up what I have said about a motor oil’s “base stock” NOT being all that critical, it is the “additive package” that IS critical.
I've been running the RLI low ash for about 5k and was put in on 1/12/18.....I've been impressed with the oil so far and very little has been caught in the catchcan after the switch! which leads me to believe like you said and Daniel that fuel dilution is being handled better with this stuff. It has been noticeable that I don't dump my catch can nearly as much as before (almost non-existent now). Since he specified the low ash that's what I got, it has a better more robust additive package than the stuff that was tested and that tested as noted pretty damn well!! I wonder if they will re-test the low ash version and post up the results??!
I was convinced when I read up on that whole thread he was talking about the properties of the oil and what not so I went for it right after that and just switched our minivan over to the 5w20 last week as a matter of fact.
Another run of Mobil 1. This time I replaced it with Mobil 1 0w-30 to see if it would reduce the random ticking noise at start up, and it definitely did make less noise on start up. As you can see, I have reduced my change intervals to 6k miles and seen an expected significant drop in wear metals. Next up will be Biosyn, but I had already bought this oil with the expectation of running it as a test, so here I go...I'll post the analysis results from this one too.
Keep in mind, this powerplant is kept in very near stock condition. No aftermarket oil filters, WIX paper air filters that look identical to OEM, no headers or other power related modifications. I did a lot of that in the past, and walked in lieu of driving a few times because of it. That's not my goal with this ride.
Results are in for RLI's 5w-30. It performed quite well, it is number 4 behind the Amsoil Signature Series in load testing, and even at 275F, it only lost 0.7% of its load capacity. Daniel was right about it being really good oil. Now it just needs to produce used oil results after being in service.
Not sure how I missed this, but great news... I just ticked over 10k on my fill of this RLI (in delicious low-ash flavor), and it's not much down on the dipstick, nor have I had to dump the catch can once despite a lot of hard driving in the TX heat.
01-12-18, 11:31 AM
which leads me to believe like you said and Daniel that fuel dilution is being handled better with this stuff. It has been noticeable that I don't dump my catch can nearly as much as before (almost non-existent now). Since he specified the low ash that's what I got, it has a better more robust additive package than the stuff that was tested and that tested as noted pretty damn well!! I wonder if they will re-test the low ash version and post up the results??!
