When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I hesitated to start another thread but I also hate hijacking someone's thread and taking it in a different direction.
So I've read WAYYYY to many tire threads already. I've collected most/many of them at the bottom of this post for anyone who wants to easily find a bunch of tire threads to read. I may keep updating the list as as time goes on and I catch them popping up. Searching can be tricky from my experience.
First... A few questons:
1) Can anyone confirm if the Pirelli P7 AS Plus 3 (with or without the Cinturato in the name) and/or the Yokohama Advan Sport AS Plus have decent (hopefully comparable) rim protection to the stock size Michelin Primacy MXM 4s?
* From what I've read, even just having the rim protection/guard is not a feature for a specific tire model - sometimes it will only be on certain sized tires and even that may not make a lot of sense at times. For instance a 235 40R19 such as ours will have it but a 245 40R19 may not or even a 245 35R19 might not. You just don't know. And since these things aren't always just in stock at the actual location you can't just look and try to compare side by side. I know the protection is minor but I swear they've saved me a few times - I end up doing a lot of parallel parking. (and we won't talk about what I did to my rear wheel a couple of weeks ago and how nothing would have saved me )
2) Can anyone confirm for sure that a going up to a 245 40R19 will fit on a '16 F Sport AWD with stock 19" Lexus wheels? (technically Lux wheels but the wheel spec is identical to the F sport wheels from everything I know)
* In all of my reading there seemed to be some conflicting information. There was at least one post (or thread) where someone seemed to have contact in the front with the fender liner at full lock of the steering wheel. I realize that from 235 to 245 we're talking a side wall height difference of 0.16" and a diameter difference of 0.32" and it seems like there's plenty of room under there but I'm looking at that space with tires that are at the point of replacement so maybe it really is that tight with new tires. All tires will be the same size so there won't be the issue of the different diameters front to back. I realize my speedo will be off a little. I've heard gas mileage could suffer a little (seems a little odd??). I realize 245 35R19 would be the typical replacement when going wider but I'm not interested in how that thin of profile tire will change the ride quality. I'm trying to balance maybe a bit of extra sportiness without a sacrifice in ride.
3) I'm curious about folks thoughts on going up a size on an AWD. On a RWD I totally get it, especially in the rear. At least one post someone said they had done the stock 235 40R19 but wished they had done the 245 40R19. My interest is primarily three fold - slightly bigger tire to fill the extra bit of gap the AWD has, slightly more sidewall to tackle how horrible our roads are getting, and a little bit of extra sportiness from the wider tire. Maybe this is just something no one ever feels and it's all just a placebo effect?
For folks with other suggestions on which tires....I appreciate it but at this point I'll stick with one of these two - I'm already at info overload on this I think. The Primacy's have been fine but like everyone says, their tread life isn't the best. I should be happy I got just over 30k miles out of them but that's with good rotations and running them to the point of being AT REPLACEMENT TIME (or maybe a tiny bit past if I'm being honest).
Ok....and now the list of tire posts I managed to track down - to help folks who might be searching. Some newer ones are missing I'm sure, I started this a while back.
Date ranges might be a little off too if someone brought one back to life with another post - dates are the initial date the thread started and the date of the last post when I looked at it. This also doesn't include a ton of individual posts in the "what you did to your GS today" thread - I read a bunch of those but I can't even imagine trying to collect them.
Individual posts of possible rubbing issues with 245/40R19 Front - seem like possible anomalies, no clear resolutions/findings unless I missed something: 06.07.22 * 08.20.19 * 11.30.19
Thanks in advance to everyone!
Last edited by LexusGSboy; Nov 25, 2023 at 05:56 PM.
Reason: added additional tire thread discussion to list
@LexusGSboy I think you'll get great treadlife out of the Pirellis so I'd say roll with the Pirelli tires. I don't have personal experience with the others you mentioned or with the overall rim protection. I used to exclusively run Michelins on my old GS430. Note: The Cinturato All Season "Plus" tires have the better treadwear rating so I'd recommend those if you decide on the Pirelli's.
I figured you've seen many folks on the forum upsize to 245/40 tires which will fit your 19x8 lux wheels perfectly. I was planning to upsize the last time I needed tires but got a great deal on the Dunlops I was running and kept the same size. The lower gas mileage you saw mentioned is likely due to the slightly heavier weight of the 245 tire. Truthfully, can't go wrong with the Michelins or Pirelli's - I think its just a matter of your budget and tire/size availability.
Small point but potentially useful when doing tire comparisons... Tread wear numbers are not exchangable between brands. Odd I know but Pirelli's version of, say, 700 and Michelin's will be different. Like-brand is a lot more predictable, and I've found that brands with sub-brands (like Firestone/Bridgestone or Goodyear/Kelly) are still matched up pretty well. Really one thing I'd like to see out of a tire is a durometer number, that would be interesting to see differences maybe.
Pirelli's are a favorite of mine, also Continental. Both make exceptional tires in their own right. Yokohama I've owned a few sets but always found them to be a bit slippery in the rain. Tire Rack charts seem to echo that.
Pirelli's touring line consistently have less road noise intruding into the cabin than others, must be how they belt them.
@AJLex19 Thanks for the input - spent a little more time today looking at pricing and info. Price is a factor but given that the tires are likely to be on the car for 4+ years I don't tend to get overly stuck on pricing alone - once you spread it out it's pennies a day.
I think either the P7 AS Plus 3 or the Advan Sport AS Plus would be great tires. I've had all three brands on cars through the years (Michelin, Yoko, Pirelli) and I've liked things about all of them.
Right now with specials the pricing is very close between the Yokos and the Pirellis. I'd say Michelin is the third choice since so many folks speak so highly of those two.
Below are prices in Oregon from Discount Tire's website today - folks should verify for their market and any mistakes I may have made but it should be a good reference.
A couple things I found interesting on the "official" tread and traction ratings are below. They are quoted from TireRack. Seems strange to me why anyone would under report tread life but I'm sure there's logic in some marketing folks minds. The traction rating quote makes sense to me.
I dug around in threads a bit more for discussion of the 245/40R19 fit and it seems like for most folks it works fine. The 245/40R19 also come up as alternate tires at Discount Tire and chatting with their Rep online, any alternates they list should fit without any issues at all. For those wondering, here's what the difference is between the two.
These couple of posts about the 245/40R19s rubbing seem to just be anomalies and possibly related to spacers or something else strange going on - I've included them just for folks who might be researching. I did find a lot more folks confirming the 245/40R19 on the front work (in a mix of RWD and AWD scenarios).
Possible Rubbing 245/40R19 The post references these two other posts: 08.20.19, 11.30.19. I think there may have been at least one other I happened upon, I think I remember some pictures of a duct tape with rub marks.
I did find this post with a photo from 09.08.22 with a picture of the 245/40R19 Yokohamas that seems to show a decent rim protector lip. Haven't found a pic that I could make out what the P7s protection might be like.
I'm also adding a few more things to the list above after this.
Small point but potentially useful when doing tire comparisons... Tread wear numbers are not exchangable between brands. Odd I know but Pirelli's version of, say, 700 and Michelin's will be different. Like-brand is a lot more predictable, and I've found that brands with sub-brands (like Firestone/Bridgestone or Goodyear/Kelly) are still matched up pretty well. Really one thing I'd like to see out of a tire is a durometer number, that would be interesting to see differences maybe.
Pirelli's are a favorite of mine, also Continental. Both make exceptional tires in their own right. Yokohama I've owned a few sets but always found them to be a bit slippery in the rain. Tire Rack charts seem to echo that.
Pirelli's touring line consistently have less road noise intruding into the cabin than others, must be how they belt them.
Thanks @fourthmeal ! From what I read there should be at least some logic behind how the tread ratings come about but I completely agree that they often don't seem to correlate to the tread ware warranties. The Yokos being 440 while the Pirellis are 740 seems off. I'd expect the Yokos be be a bit lower since they have a 55k tread warranty but not that much lower - something in the 590 range would seem to make sense. The question I wasn't sure of when I read about how the test was done had to do with the "reference tire" used and whether it's a reference tire used for testing all makes/models or if a brand uses one of it's tires as the reference.
I hadn't seen your post as I was writing the one just before this - but it also seems like some companies might play with lowering their numbers artificially even though that doesn't make sense to me why a company would do that.
Last edited by LexusGSboy; Nov 25, 2023 at 05:59 PM.
Be aware that the P7 A/S starts off new with 12/32's of measured tread. Most tires start a measure of 8-10/32's.
I've seen that mentioned numerous times. Looking at the specs on Discount Tire's website and tirerack.com the initial tread measurement varies based on which P7. I listed them in my spreadsheet pic above for the P7 AS Plus 3 (11/32) and the Cinturato P7 AS Plus (10/32). I looked up the Cinturator P7 AS (no plus) and it also showed 10/32. Couldn't find the Cinturato AS Plus 2 on TireRack or Discount even thought Pirelli's US website shows it.
The screwy thing is that while both sites list the initial tread of the P7 AS Plus 3 as 11/32, they show different tread ratings. DT shows 740 A A while TR shows 800 A A (same exact tire size - should be identical).
Do you know where folks found the 12/32 reference?
PS - the Yoko Advan Sport AS+ that everyone talks about also supposedly starts with 11/32.
So quick follow up - So I found yet ANOTHER P7... The Cinturato P7 Blue that in certain sizes such as 285/40R20 show as starting with 12/32". That same size in the Cinturato P7 AS shows 9/32.
I didn't look hard, but it would seem that the P7 AS Plus 3 doesn't come in that size. Looking through a few of the sizes of this tire I didn't find any that showed 12/32, max was 11/32 that I found (but again, I didn't check every size)
Be aware that the P7 A/S starts off new with 12/32's of measured tread. Most tires start a measure of 8-10/32's.
Originally Posted by LexusGSboy
So quick follow up - So I found yet ANOTHER P7... The Cinturato P7 Blue that in certain sizes such as 285/40R20 show as starting with 12/32". That same size in the Cinturato P7 AS shows 9/32.
I didn't look hard, but it would seem that the P7 AS Plus 3 doesn't come in that size. Looking through a few of the sizes of this tire I didn't find any that showed 12/32, max was 11/32 that I found (but again, I didn't check every size)
Agreed about the 11/32nd on the Pirelli's - but i think that's one of the highest you'll find in a quality tire!
Agreed about the 11/32nd on the Pirelli's - but i think that's one of the highest you'll find in a quality tire!
Definitely - mainly, with all the different P7s, and trying to figure out which one folks were talking about while researching, I wanted to make sure I wasn't off on something still. I was happy to see the Yoko Advan Sports where also 11/32, and interesting that the Michelins in the stock size were the lowest of the group at 9/32.
I think I'm leaning toward the Pirelli's at this point because the sale is so good they're the better deal. Only thing I haven't confirmed is whether the P7s in the 245/40R19 have any sort of rim protection - I haven't been able to find a legible photo in any of the threads. I may call on Monday.
No, I actually measured a new set on time before installed with 2 tread depth gauges. Both measure 12/32's on the ones I had.
Also I don't know why some reviewed the P7 has average in the rain? I remember reading the they revised the wet traction & wet stopping traction in the Plus 2 & 3. I was going to Myrtle Beach SC from Atlanta more than a few times, and was going through like 3" - 4" puddles in the highway. Those P7 stuck and tracked, even worn some. That was what I hated about the Michelins. When they wore some they sucked in the rain bad.
I think some of the P7 rain neg reviews likely had the wrong tire pressures. 50% of the time out of tire shops in the South when I get my car back with new tire and/or rotate and balance they have the wrong tire pressure. I always check, I've had times with the 4 tires being out as much as 30psi, then another tire being 41psi. lol!
@jgscott So I couldn't really answer your question (in the "What did you do today" thread) until now. I basically punted the decision and ordered both so that I could look at them side by side. I hated doing it but I chatted with the Discount Tires online support folks and they suggested that it was fine.
I ended up going with the 245/40 R19 Pirelli P7 AS Plus 3 (no Cinturato in the name or anywhere on the tire itself). I'll post a little more later this evening on my logic and thoughts.
Another question I have for folks who purchase through Discount Tire....
Has anyone purchased and used Discount's "Certificate for Repair, Refund, or Replacement"? Last time I did tires I don't remember this even existing.
This basically seems to be an even better Road Hazard Warranty above and beyond the normal one that's included when you buy tires from Discount. For the Pirellis in the size above it runs $38/tire - about $152 for the set.
I opted not to do it at the time of purchase or today when they were installed but it can be added for 30 days.
The thing that was a bit intriguing to me was how the program supposedly works on a car with AWD. In the scenario where one tire had irreparable damage (like a side wall puncture) you would get:
1 tire fully replaced with the same tire (under standard warranty this tire would usually be prorated)
3 remaining good tires would be prorated (under standard warranty these tires do not get prorated - you would need to pay to replace all 3 at the normal price)
On an FWD or RWD car I likely wouldn't purchase - it's easy enough to replace two and be done. I've actually had the above scenario on a different AWD car but luckily the tires were close enough to needing replacement it wasn't a big deal.
Note - this is what I was told, I have not read this in the actual contract (but I trust the guys at the Discount I go to). They also said that in a situation where there was no Discount near by and you had to buy a tire they would refund you that amount as well.
How much is a tire repair about $40? You'd have to get 4 flats for it to play for itself. Of course you could wreck a tire beyond repair then it will be worth the money.
How much is a tire repair about $40? You'd have to get 4 flats for it to play for itself. Of course you could wreck a tire beyond repair then it will be worth the money.
Normal repairs are already covered under the road hazard warranty that's included at not cost.
With AWD you can't replace 1 tire unless the tires are relatively new - the new tire needs to be within about 1/4" diameter of the other 3.
If one makes the assumption that at around 18 months / 17,500 miles (25% of mileage) something pokes a hole in the side wall of 1 tire (cost $263/tire) the math works out that:
Without the certificate:
Damaged tire is prorated for 75% credit which would be $197.50
3 other tires not prorated so no credit
So 4 @ $263 = $1052 - 197.50 credit = $854.5 would be the out of pocket
WITH the certificate:
Damaged tire is covered 100% so a credit of $263
3 other tires prorated for 75% so $197.50 x 3 = $592.50 credit
So 4 @ $263 = $1052 - $263 - $592.50 = $196.50 out of pocket.
If you include the cost of certificates it would be $349.50 total out of pocket.
Yet Another Tire Thread...
)
The Primacy's have been fine but like everyone says, their tread life isn't the best. I should be happy I got just over 30k miles out of them but that's with good rotations and running them to the point of being AT REPLACEMENT TIME (or maybe a tiny bit past if I'm being honest).
