I guess it's easy to forget Toyota just got 1 and 2 in the Indy 500.

Plus it may be easy to forget that Toyota has had the Supra TT - right up there in terms of performance.

rogers is right in saying Lexus does not offer cars to compete with BMW M series or Mercedes AMG or Audi S and RS models. APART from those niche products though, Lexus is ABSOLUTELY competitive. And about not having products to match those niche products? So what, it's not hurting them.

We have this same basic thread about every other month whining about how Lexus is behind or not a real contender, etc. I get the sense that rogers and others don't necessarily want Lexus to compete in that space, they'd prefer to be able like to put Lexus down. Whatever floats your boat...

M, AMG, S, RS vehicles are very impressive, but they're very expensive, and may have other trade-offs. For example, even the BMW-loving press said the M3 has a rock hard suspension, not really comfortable for every day driving. Of all these high end vehicles I'd take an AMG like an E55 or SL55. The engines have proven to be bulletproof. The M vehicles are too high strung and unreliable for me. The RS6 has amazing specs, but it's not even on sale yet so who knows what the reliability will be like.

So to rogers, et al, if ya got the money and want a car like an M, AMG, S or RS, go get one and quit *****ing about Lexus. Otherwise, just quit *****ing.

 

I don't recall Acura racing in F-1. It was Honda, wasn't it?

If you want to talk about history you need to look into the Datsun/Nissan history. Honda wasn't doing crap until F-1. They were known for their motorcycle racing until then. Looking back at Datsun, they had the famous 510, the true poorman's bimmer, and the 240Z. They had the IMSA monsters that dominated for many years, bringing home championships. They were a force in racing. I don't understand the lack of respect for them.

Here's a good website with some of their history.

http://www.datsunhistory.com/Racehistory1.html

 

Let's not forgot that was the Penske teams third victory in a row as well. I would say Toyota knows a little bit about engines.

 

Hey guys. Rogers can ***** and bull_ _ _t all day about how German cars are better, but he really hasn't even mentioned one of the most important differences... RESALE VALUE. In one of his threads he asks "what does Lexus have over Audi (etc.) besides reliability?" Well, I can answer that question from personal experience...

I traded in an '02 Audi A6 4.2 Quattro for my '03 SC430. I purchased it for $50k brand new and got a whopping $36k eight months and 11,000 miles later when I traded it in. How's that for depreciation? But I really didn't care because I was so glad to get away from their crappy service department that I was willing to take the loss.

This Audi was the most expensive, best-performing A6 available, so I suppose you could say it goes head-to-head with the GS430. What did it have that the Lexus didn't?...

-Embarrassing, squealing brakes (service dept. said that was normal)
-Constantly dirty wheels (metallic brake linings)
-Mediocre BOSE stereo far inferior to anything in a Lexus
-Slow-responding auto transmission (almost got rear-ended several times pulling out in rush hour traffic)

The only advantage it had was AWD. And that one advantage isn't worth it. Believe me.. I'd take the GS anytime.

And to address another point... I've now owned 3 Lexuses but have never purchased any of them because they were less expensive than an equivalent BMW or Mercedes. I've purchased them because I preferred their styling, comfort, and quality, and reliability to the competition.

 

Dam those are some harsh words. I never said anything about one car being better than the other. I could give a **** rather the car is made in German/Jap/ or American.
I said Lexus need more performance and I’m really tired repeat this same quote. I respect Lexus car **** my wife has gs300.
Do your SC430 out Handle the new A6?
Is your SC430 faster than the new A6? Can the SC430 be chip?
the sc430 is a coupe at that.
Well I think that some it up. All the other things you mention save it for another topic.
Why is everyone constantly addressing me on the reliability/quality of his or her cars when I’m talking about performance?
Let's be serious what would you have purchase if the SC430 or CL500 or NSX were the same price? Well this is my last post on this topic. I just gave my opinion.

 

First , the above quote is pointless since the price of the SC430 and the other two are miles apart, about 70 % more in fact.

Second, If it's a car that I plan to keep until it dies, I'll pick the SC430 and the NSX over the CL500.
The CL500 has never appeal to me.I won't keep it if it's given to me, I'll exchange it for something else.

I could care less whether the A6 handles better than the SC430, but as an overall package it is way better than the Audi.

My point is that you shouldn't assume everybody has the same tastes and preferences as you.

 

I think people are mad because Lexus got it right from day one. Mercedes-Benz and BMW began to look at the reliablity issue after Lexus came to the market. Now a days I still think that Lexus beats everyone else in reliablity and so do JD Power and Consumer Reports. The only way Mercedes-Benz and BMW can compete with Lexus is to add all this power. You can say whatever you want about performance of Lexus, but Lexus has built a reputation for itself. Lexus has went from just "the luxury divsion of toyota" to "the highest selling luxury cars". And in only about a decade.

 

This thread sure has gotten out of line. Even RON430 got into it!

Seriously, there are those of use who prefer the German cars and those of use who prefer the Japanese cars - oh and those who prefer the American cars. Each has its own strengths and each its own weaknesses. I think arguing about them here is like arguing about religion - nobody is every going to win.

Doug

PS - the GS is due for an update and I think that might have been the original point. Most people would probably agree with that.

 

Unless you mean the new RS6, it probably does. The A6 is not that special.

Which A6? Again, if you mean the RS6, that's a whole different ball game, and also not yet available, and also probably going to be $25K MORE than an SC430 when it comes out.

I addressed your points directly before. Besides the M, AMG, and Audi S/RS models, which are definitely impressive, and expensive as hell, Lexus is VERY competitive.