Very good point about BMW. A few people, including myself, have asked about buying a used E39 on roadfly.com. Most of the respondents express that the car should be purchased with a warranty. I don't think thats a bad idea but I don't think Lexus owners would express that as a main focal point. I made the choice to go with reliability over sportiness and stick with Lexus. The sportiness can come from the aftermarket. At least that's my thinking for today.

One thing I notice is that the X-5 is really taking a sales hit. Most suvs(savs in bmws case) hold up the company 's sales figures but the X-5 seems to be bringing them down for BMW. The new X-3 should reverse that trend.

 

Good discussion here. One of the main things I have noticed about Lexus in Europe is they state it lacks the "Image" of BMW or Benz. Otherwise, they don't find any faults with the car besides they are "boring" compared to BMW or Benz. The IS 200/300 has gotten rave reviews overseas. Lexus has gathered the respect of the automobile press overseas because of their build quality, reliability and dealer service. The LS 430 is considered the preimer luxury sedan to buy but if you wan't panache, look elsewhere.

Risks and innovative. Let's see, Optiron gauges, heck Eleminiscent gauges other brands now copy. Double hinged doors on the first SC, heck the designing of the first SC? The RX 300, the first car-based SUV. The IS 300 was the first Japanese sedan to tackle the vaunted 3-series seriously. The hardtop SC 430 with it's love it or hate it looks. The hideaway wood on the dash. VVT-i (using variable timing to squeeze 300hp out thesame 4.0 liter that gave 250hp). The electronic dash. The telescopic steering wheel. Those are risks and innovations to me.

Looking at HP, well if the old 4.0 liter V-8 and new 4.3 liter V-8 has as much or more power than a 4.4 liter BMW V-8 or 5.0 liter 302 HP Benz V-8 why bother?

Lexus is still the best selling luxury brand. The "BIG 3" are BMW, Benz and Lexus. Look at car design before Lexus (black bumpers, fit and finish of a Yugo, paint quality etc) and now (integrated bumpers etc).The terms "Lexus Like" are used in magazines monthly. Look at the new Hynandai SUV (looks just like the old RX 300) the Acura RL (looks like the olds LS 400) the Nissan Altima (looks like the GS series) etc, Lexus is not being copied for it's designs. Not unlike the LS 400/430 looking like a Benz S-class.

Understand, Lexus hears you. That is why Lexus will be present in it's home of Japan, and try to further differenciate Toyota as the builder. That is why AWD is coming, look at the gadgets the new RX 330 has (rear tv, rear camera, swivel headlights, adaptive cruise control)etc.

 

Don't forget the Lexus hybrid suv that's coming out.

 

Funny, the more BMW's I drive, the less I like them. I've test driven some, like an E36 M3 and a 2000 323i,
both weren't incredibly impressive to me and had some bugs, like the 323's rear driver window was stuck all the way down. The leather wasn't great feeling to me either. And the red digital dash wasn't pleasing to the eye.

I'm much more happy with my GS

 

I think the eshift sets it apart from most manual trans.

 

Why do you say the X5 is bringing BMW's sales down? The X5 was the key to BMW overtaking MB in the Luxury car race back in 2000.

I just don't understand how a model can bring sales down.

 

That's the past and this is the present. Look at the sales figures and interprete them yourself.

 

I am sorry I didn't know this thread didn't have the sales figures.


Make Model April2003 April 2002 2003 YTD 2002 YTD
BMW X5 2,716 4,086 11,026 14,082

http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsuv.asp

Comparing 4/03 and 4/02 down 36%
Comparing ytd 4/03 and 4/02 down 22%

Retailers generally use ytd sales from a year to year basis to compare store sales(comps). I think this is a good indicator of the state of the X5.

 

I think that the main problem with Lexus in Europe is that the cars are made for the American market. The GS that I drive are only selling about 100 cars a year (in Sweden). In Europe most families only have one car then the GS is too unpractical. Look at the trunk, the wheel base is so narrow making the wheels taking up a lot of space from the trunk like you see in old cars. Then you have the trunk connectors (in lack of a better word) they are also old fashion and squeeze any groceries that are placed in the trunk. You can’t fold the back seats. When I go furniture shopping at IKEA for instance I have to borrow another car!! Honestly would you buy a GS if that was your only car and had a family? The more practical cars the RX and IS200 are selling much better. Then I come to the second problem. Lexus have to be taking more risks in Europe. The RX was released three years ago the GS400 never existed and the IS300 was released recently.

Another problem in Europe that Lexus has to fight is that Japanese cars are not accepted in this segment that Lexus is aiming at. A lot of people are buying the GS because it’s so anonym that it will never cause any envy. This seems to be the main strategy for Lexus and this is always going to sell them a very limited amount of cars.

/Fredric

 

Frederic,

What do you do with your GS in the winter?? Do you just slap on some snow tires and go along your way? It would seem the GS would be impractical in Sweden because doesnt Sweden and the whole Baltic area get a LOT of snow?

 

I think the main problem with Lexus and Acura is that they don't want take any risk. Both companies only think about how much money they can make. Everybody can be honest here Mb does have better-looking cars than Lexus and have more prestige. Yes the LS430 is a better bargain but doesn't look or perform better than a 745/E500/A8.
Yes Lexus is more reliable but most people that can afford 60k usually purchase a new car every 3 years.
Lexus absolute need to step up. The body style of the GS use to look good to me but it's just boring now.
I think Lexus want be MB while being greedy at the same time. Acura want be BMW while only taking semi risk.
So in the end the two car companies still make more money. At least Infiniti is taking risk but still miles behind.

 

Rogers, everyone has their own opinion, but in mine... with the exception of the SL500... Mercedes doesn't have better-looking cars. I still prefer the old-style GS to the the new E-Class. I shopped the new CLK when it was first introduced in August of last year and was so unimpressed that I chose to trade my Audi A6 for an SC430. Mercedes has pretty cars, but from a styling standpoint... THEY'RE the boring ones.

I personally don't want Lexus to adopt the "different sizes cut from the same sausage" philosophy that Mercedes uses. If I pay $90K for an S-Class, I don't want someone else to be able to buy a $35K C-Class that looks just like it.

Could Lexus engineer a little more excitement into their cars?... absolutely. But in the interim, I'll take the boring reliability Lexus offers over their German counterparts any day. As for Infiniti... I also own a QX4, so I'm pretty familiar with the brand. I agree that they are taking necessary chances. However, they still need to bring their fit/finish (especially interior) up to Lexus standards to be a contender.

 

I respect your opinion also but SC430 doesn't look better than sl500/sl55/clk55/clk500. I'm very sure it doesn't outperform any of those cars. How can you call MB boring when the most excite car Lexus has is an is300? Lexus is #1in reliability but probably last in fun factor.
How dare you compare c class to s class? Anyway a C32 outperform any car Lexus has.
Yes Lexus is reliable but Acura & Infiniti is also so stop push that over and over again. Infiniti is actually above Lexus performance wise in my opinion.
I being during some thinking do you think Lexus/Acura are more reliable b/c they don't do any real sport series like M&AMG.
Scare to push the issue.
3.5 liter basically outperforms 4.3 engines.
Yes, a g35 does look better than sc430
I give it to Lexus they make nice cushy/Luxury cars.
That's why every woman I know want buy a Toyota Camry.
Lexus/Acura need to step up point blank. Until then people are going always consider our cars just soupy up Toyota/Hondas: Just giving my opinion.

 

“I being during some thinking do you think Lexus/Acura are more reliable b/c they don't do any real sport series like M&AMG.”

Well no, their regular vehicles have quality issues also. They sell such a small number of the M and AMG series that even if they all had problems, it wouldn’t be enough to effect the ratings for the entire line of vehicles.

I agree that the C Class resembles the S class, just a smaller version.


“Yes the LS430 is a better bargain but doesn't look or perform better than a 745/E500/A8.”

How many buy backs did Lexus have to do with the LS430? Ask BMW how many they did with the 745i. Also have you tested both of these vehicles?

You’re also comparing the E500 to a LS when it should be the S Class. Oh wait, you will say the S Class isn’t even in the LS category right? Ever test both of these vehicles, if you really can justify the 25-35-45k more for the car, please let me know. I see the S Class as a status symbol, but it does not offer a value worth 30k+ more then the LS.

 

I don't use my car very much so I do what all GS owner does here. Slap some Nokian tyres on. I think the GS is decent winter car if you have the right kind of tires. I bought the wrong kind so my car is horrible.
/Fredric