Yes, a light weight 2 seater sports car handles better than a sedan, but driving a sports sedan is not just about who is running circles around who, but the sportiness of the driving experience. Driving an auto is like turning the engine on, hit the gas, and being carried along for the ride. Only the manual transmission can provide a complete, satisfying driving experience.

 

Even with a manual tranny a sports sedan is still a sedan and "pretend sports car". As I stated in a previous post, go to roadfly and read some of the E39 comments/posts. There is one that should stand out and that is the one concerning a sports package on a E39. It's stated that it adds to the sportiness of the sedan but it's still 4000lbs. It doesn't mean it doesn't handle well but it's not a sports car. Take that for what it's worth from the guys who have the ultimate driving machine.

 

O.K., so let's change "pretend sports car" in my original post to "pretend sports sedan" then

 

OK!

 

I (and many others I suspect) didn't buy a GS so I could pretend I have a sports car. A sports sedan is just that - a sedan that's sportier than just 'transportation'. Of course a car as large as the GS won't ever be like a Porsche sports car for example, but then the opposite is true also - you can't fit 4 people (in any comfort) in a sports car. They're just different.

SexySC said:Well I disagree. You should have come to one of our meets in North Carolina.

 

Of course not, & I don't think I ever imply that, and I didn't buy my 2 door SC so I could pretend I have a sports car. I bought the SC430 as a LUXURY CAR PERIOD. I didn't think lexus ever made a serious attempt to make it sporty, but it's one of the most beautifully built car I've ever seen.

What I am getting at is with some car enthusiasts, like those car magazines journalists, will rate any car heavily on how sporty the driving experience it provides, even with luxury cars like an LS430, not to mention sports sedans like the GS, and a manual transmission is a highly desirable feature to them.

I, like most people, can appreciate the fact that a car can be highly satisfying in many different ways other than just sporty handling and performance, and buy Lexus cars because of the excellent total package it offers. But occasionally, we hear members of this forum complaining how Lexus cars are criticized by some magazine articles for not being sporty or powerful enough compare to other premium brands, and even leaving them off some comparison tests.
What I'm suggesting with the availability of a manual transmission on a sports sedan like GS, is just one of the ways to enhance its sporty image. As you can remember, there have been threads in the past suggesting a in-house tuner division for Lexus to compete with AMG's and M's.

Our opinion may differ, but I still consider driving a manual car as the complete driving experience, though it can still be highly satisfying without it.

As for the meets in N.Carolina, I wish I could be there, but it's a continent away from the west coast here in Vancouver, I'm sure you guys had a lot of fun.

 

How is vancouver these days? Has SARS effected things there?

 

Sars never a serious issue here, no deaths, no newly infected cases and all infections can be traced to overseas.

It's Toronto that's having problems right now.

 

I feel that Lexus does not care about HP numbers, they care about sales numbers. Every Lexus model (IS, GS, ES, SC, and especially their SUV segment) does well against its competitors. Lexus is a company that represents great luxury and service at a fair price. This has made them the #1 luxury car maker in the US.

The current GS in particular is still a strong car, and that 6 years after it came out. If i was on the market for a new car right now, I would probably still pick the GS over the new E class and current 5 series. Given the performance and features you can get for a great price. The E class still has no navigation system that is usable.

The problem with Lexus is that it wants to be just one of the luxury brands, but not the top one. None of their cars stand out. Except for the US, Lexus is not respected as a luxury brand on the same level as MB and BMW. I dont understand why Lexus doesnt take more risks and be more innovative. MB and BmW always push the limit in creating luxury cars with ultimate performance, while Lexus is happy just to be somewhere in the middle. I feel until Lexus becomes serious and starts to compete at the highest level of performance and luxury (such as Benz's AMG and BMW's M cars) it can never be considered the top luxury brand. If the goal of lexus is to sell the most luxury cars, then they are doing great. But if their goal is to be the top luxury car maker, then they have some catching up to do.

 

Lexus isn't "happy just somewhere in the middle" when it comes to build quality or customer satisfaction. And as you pointed out, they are tops in luxury vehicle sales. So I guess I don't understand why you say they have some catching up to do to be the top luxury car maker--even the first paragraph of your post calls them "the #1 luxury car maker in the U.S."!

Mercedes and BMW are in panic mode. Look at the build quality issues with the ML and the far from cordial reception the new designs by Chris Bangle have gotten in the marketplace. M3 engines are blowing up, and you still can't get better than a CD-based nav system on a top-of-the-line Benz. They are living on reputation, but that goodwill is rapidly running out...

 

I dont know if they are in panic mode. Despite the numerous problems the rich in miami love the ML's, M3's, 745's. They love the flash and they love the name brand of BMW and MB. To many the feeling is "any bum off the street can own a Lexus..." Lexus is too boring for a lot of people around here....They do acknowledge that lexus has superior quality but most lease, many problems happen AFTER the lease period, and therefore its form over substance.

 

Lexus is stong in the US market, but its not very highly regarded in other places. MB and BMW still have more prestige than Lexus to many people. The point im trying to make is that Lexus shouldnt just settle at being in the position of being just one of the luxury brands, it should strive for being the absolute BEST. I feel it has great potential to do that since Toyota is one of the biggest car companies in the world. But it seems to me that Lexus doesnt want take risks, it wants to play it safe. MB and BMW doesnt make profits from their AMG and M cars, but those cars help to generate passion and interest in their brand. Lexus has no cars like that and i feel it should, if it ever wants to be at the top of the luxury segment.

 

Gadgets, more gadgets!

 

You're definitely right, those models do add prestige and buzz to their respective brands. I would love for Lexus to offer an ultra-high-performance version of each of their models! It would actually make me a lot more interested in the SC, for example...

But given limited resources, I'm glad to see Lexus focusing their efforts on building the best luxury cars out there, period. The GS430 has more sport than I will usually ever need, and almost couldn't be built any better from a quality of workmanship standpoint. The LS430 was chosen as the best luxury car on the planet over cars costing literally hundreds of thousands of dollars more. The RX just raised the bar (again) for what's expected in an entry-level luxury SUV.

Let the posers flaunt their roundels and hood stars. Let them put down others to feed their petty egos. But I think the marketplace is speaking pretty loudly, and the news isn't good for the German manufacturers. How good can it be for BMW when they are widely regarded as "The ultimate driving machine, at least while you're in warranty"? And it appears the Daimler-Chrysler merger has done far more to tarnish the Benz image than improve the Chrysler one. Let Lexus continue to pick up more and more of the "mainstream" luxury market share. Then they'll have the resources to maintain what has made them successful AND come out with a few niche vehicles that will further dominate the field.

 

Lexus holds its own ground. It doesn't have to respond to other car companies attempts to be the fastest. When the first LS 400 came out it wasn't to compete with MBs V12s, or BMWs handling. It is what it is Lexus. If you like it, you like it and if you don't, you don't.