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No thanks. I prefer the aesthetics of a traditional sedan.
Waiting for what the new Camry will look like because the ES will most likely have a similar silhouette. Just please don't make it look like the Crown.
Disagree, and the GTS variant looks very wagon like. The ES has been, and should remain, a traditional looking sedan.
Is the Panamera a good looking car? That's subjective, and I wouldn't say it looks good, but definitely doesn't look as odd as when it first came out. Maybe I'm a bit old school, but in the world of SUVs and quirky looking EVs, I prefer the aesthetics of a traditional sedan.
Last edited by dezymond; Mar 17, 2023 at 06:38 PM.
Use your imagination. It could keep the sedan look. Just replacing the trunk lid and back window with a hatch.
True, but I would imagine that "just replacing the trunk lid and back window" would require a lot of structural changes to brace the body to achieve the required levels of NVH and body rigidity required for the ES. Like most cars the ES is built to a price point, and unlike a $92K+ Porsche, Toyota may not want to spend enough money to make that significant a modification. Always possible, of course, but I'd be surprised.
I visited a wealthy friend in southern California that had two Porsches, one a Panamera. He let me drive the Panamera and I must say that it was a thrill. However there is scant room in the rear for cargo due to it's hatch configuration. I would think this is the case with most hatchbacks plus there is the matter of security. Nothing like a locked trunk where nothing is visible...
True, but I would imagine that "just replacing the trunk lid and back window" would require a lot of structural changes to brace the body to achieve the required levels of NVH and body rigidity required for the ES. Like most cars the ES is built to a price point, and unlike a $92K+ Porsche, Toyota may not want to spend enough money to make that significant a modification. Always possible, of course, but I'd be surprised.
I think you've nailed it. I see people reply to ES YouTube reviews over and over with "I can't buy a car whose back seats don't fold down." Lexus/Toyota has been making this same modification to help turn a Camry/Avalon into an ES for 30 years and counting. I also see "I'd buy it if it had a GS AWD powertrain!" To which I reply, then it would cost like a GS, which nobody bought because of price. Lexus hasn't made money for 30 years by being unable to count.
How about a 4 door ES hatchback model similar to the Porsche Panamera? Fold down rear seats give you the extra room when needed.
Lot of nice, upscale cars are doing that now. There’s a four door hatchback Gran coupe BMW, also AUDI 5 4 door hatchback and the Porsche version is also quite nice. That’s a proposed perfect compromise. Looks like a sedan, practical as a hatchback! Just might be Lexus answer. I’d hate to let my traditional 2021 ES though, as I’ll probably never find another well made pure luxury sedan after that.
I'm only speaking from a versatility standpoint. I had to pick up an appliance dolly yesterday and it would not fit in my ES. My wife's Panamera worked just fine. There are those that say just buy an SUV or pickup. Well I don't have the need for such a vehicle very often. Not a practical option. As far as security and seeing in the back, there is a cover. As mentioned, it's already being done by other car makers.
I'm only speaking from a versatility standpoint. I had to pick up an appliance dolly yesterday and it would not fit in my ES. My wife's Panamera worked just fine. There are those that say just buy an SUV or pickup. Well I don't have the need for such a vehicle very often. Not a practical option. As far as security and seeing in the back, there is a cover. As mentioned, it's already being done by other car makers.
Hatchbacks are nice that way without a doubt, which is why I've previously owned several. But they do have their downsides for a pure luxury car, They entail compromises in quietness and body tightness. And if it's a stylishly sloping hatchback like the A5 or A7, you sacrifice rear seat room as well to the sloping roof. It's one more reason why people who value both passenger room and cargo versatility have joined the mass migration to SUVs, even though I don't much like them. And those chopped-roof fastback SUVs from the Germans are functionally the worst of both worlds, with compromised room AND the undesirable high center of gravity and large frontal area of an SUV. At the end of the day, you've gotta give up something.
I'm only speaking from a versatility standpoint. I had to pick up an appliance dolly yesterday and it would not fit in my ES. My wife's Panamera worked just fine. There are those that say just buy an SUV or pickup. Well I don't have the need for such a vehicle very often. Not a practical option. As far as security and seeing in the back, there is a cover. As mentioned, it's already being done by other car makers.
If you want ES to have more practicality, but dont want to buy the RX, then would you like the next generation Lexus 8ES to be based on the all new Toyota Crown sub-4" hi riding Sedan-SUV?
The new Crown is actually less than 4" taller than the Camry.
There is a strong chance that the forthcoming 8ES will be based on the Crown, but then TMC may believe that luxury buyers are more "conservative" and stick to the traditional sedan format for the 8ES.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the next generation 8ES came in both the regular sedan and the Toyota Crown based 4" high riding sedan-SUV version; it will be interesting to see which version sells better...
Last edited by peteharvey; Mar 19, 2023 at 05:38 PM.
I don't know why there's a new thread on this, when a number of us in this thread already know about this car already somewhat and posted on it only a few weeks ago in another thread. (Why not check before creating another thread?)
It arrives end of next year, for MY 2025 and was already designed 2 years ago, being shown right here in this 2021 showcase.
Electrified Lexus lineup through 2025 2024 TX 500h and 2025 ESh 2025 ESh 2025 ESh (zoomed) And for proof, this was the 2023 RXh.
In another presentation the same day, the 2024 Tacoma as well
There's no reason for the 2025 ES to echo the Panamera, when LS already exists for that purpose and the sales are reflective of it. ES will echo the LS and adopt the 6 window layout.
Last edited by Carmaker1; Mar 20, 2023 at 10:01 AM.
