Why do you hate EVs?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Silicon Valley
Why do you hate EVs?
Please keep this thread constructive and civil as much as possible.
I own both ICE as well as EVs, so can appreciate both for what the bring to the table, but I have been noticing a lot of hate on EVs, especially here in Car Chat lately.
Why do you not like EVs?
Not to sound conceited or anything (and more having some humor about it), but is it politically motivated (them *Dems*!), or because it's not readily attainable (for "us common folk"), or maybe you don't like new tech (dos > windows), or is it a religious thing?
Please share......
I own both ICE as well as EVs, so can appreciate both for what the bring to the table, but I have been noticing a lot of hate on EVs, especially here in Car Chat lately.
Why do you not like EVs?
Not to sound conceited or anything (and more having some humor about it), but is it politically motivated (them *Dems*!), or because it's not readily attainable (for "us common folk"), or maybe you don't like new tech (dos > windows), or is it a religious thing?
Please share......
Last edited by ST430; Jun 7, 2022 at 05:42 PM.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,535
Likes: 71
From: WA
For me it really boils down to availability. In a 100 mile radius from my location, there are over 35k ICE vehicles for sale on the used market compared to 338 used EV's. Almost all of them are Leafs, Bolts, Sparks, and other junk like a Soul or Fiat 500e. The Kia and Fiat are way overpriced. Pretty much all of these get horrendous range. What's left is Tesla. No thanks.
The only new ones are also Bolts and similar garbage. I don't live in a place that has a lot of EV's, used or new.
Some minor concerns are batteries catching fire and poor range, but I figure that will improve in time.
The only new ones are also Bolts and similar garbage. I don't live in a place that has a lot of EV's, used or new.
Some minor concerns are batteries catching fire and poor range, but I figure that will improve in time.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Silicon Valley
+100 we AGREE! Even though I own Teslas, I'm not really happy with the EV landscape and hope there will be more offerings which makes EVs more affordable, better range, better features, and safer!
In your situation, I can definitely see EVs not making sense and getting pinched at the gas station only aggravates matters more!
I think the success of huyndai/Kia EVs will go a long way to helping this with them targeted more middle class offerings. The Germans are now coming in string trying to take back the upper class, which should make Tesla more affordable (if Elon is ok losing a few billions
...
In your situation, I can definitely see EVs not making sense and getting pinched at the gas station only aggravates matters more!
I think the success of huyndai/Kia EVs will go a long way to helping this with them targeted more middle class offerings. The Germans are now coming in string trying to take back the upper class, which should make Tesla more affordable (if Elon is ok losing a few billions
...For me it really boils down to availability. In a 100 mile radius from my location, there are over 35k ICE vehicles for sale on the used market compared to 338 used EV's. Almost all of them are Leafs, Bolts, Sparks, and other junk like a Soul or Fiat 500e. The Kia and Fiat are way overpriced. Pretty much all of these get horrendous range. What's left is Tesla. No thanks.
The only new ones are also Bolts and similar garbage. I don't live in a place that has a lot of EV's, used or new.
Some minor concerns are batteries catching fire and poor range, but I figure that will improve in time.
The only new ones are also Bolts and similar garbage. I don't live in a place that has a lot of EV's, used or new.
Some minor concerns are batteries catching fire and poor range, but I figure that will improve in time.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 18,612
Likes: 1,852
From: Ohio
For me it's the fact that manufactures lock them down severely even compared to late model ICE cars and they are PRIMED for a subscription based ownership model. Add on the range issues, limited life of the battery, charging hassle if you don't have a home station or a good network near you, outright cost, and the fact the car will never be able to modified in any meaningful way.
Used EVs are going to be very rare due to the locked down ecosystem, I fully expect them to go the way of phones. Throw them away every two years and just replace them.
Oh and there is also the small detail that ICE cars simply do more and are far more able to be tailored to what the owner actually wants.
Used EVs are going to be very rare due to the locked down ecosystem, I fully expect them to go the way of phones. Throw them away every two years and just replace them.
Oh and there is also the small detail that ICE cars simply do more and are far more able to be tailored to what the owner actually wants.
Last edited by Striker223; Jun 7, 2022 at 05:48 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Silicon Valley
Good points! I used to have a Nissan leaf and only put in like 8k miles in 2 years because of range anxiety, so I can understand that.
But what do you mean by "locked down" ecosystem?
If you're taking about ecu tuning, ECUTEK just released a Nissan Leaf tuning suite and said this was the start of their EV effort....I think more aftermarket support will come as EV platform matures and racers like you and I start clamoring for it!
But what do you mean by "locked down" ecosystem?
If you're taking about ecu tuning, ECUTEK just released a Nissan Leaf tuning suite and said this was the start of their EV effort....I think more aftermarket support will come as EV platform matures and racers like you and I start clamoring for it!
For me it's the fact that manufactures lock them down severely even compared to late model ICE cars and they are PRIMED for a subscription based ownership model. Add on the range issues, limited life of the battery, charging hassle if you don't have a home station or a good network near you, outright cost, and the fact the car will never be able to modified in any meaningful way.
Used EVs are going to be very rare due to the locked down ecosystem, I fully expect them to go the way of phones. Throw them away every two years and just replace them.
Used EVs are going to be very rare due to the locked down ecosystem, I fully expect them to go the way of phones. Throw them away every two years and just replace them.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Silicon Valley
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Lexus Champion
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Like you, I'm part of both worlds, 30 years of Toyota and Lexus ownership. I currently own 3 ICE and 2 EV'S, but I I'll probably be all EV by 2025
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Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
I've seen this hate by certain members for years. Its okay...everyone has a right to an opinion. EVs are threatening the existence of something they hold dear and so its a natural reaction to dislike the change. What I don't like is the crap that is completely made up that spreads FUD. Things like higher chance of fires, batteries needing replacement in 8 years, Tesla going out of business, Tesla being a ponzi scheme, electricity becoming more expensive than gas, outrageous unsubstantiated tax on EVs, electric infrastructure all being raided for their copper, US electric grid spontaneously self destructing with so many EVs coming online, insurance being 10x more expensive, etc, etc. Sooooo muuuuuuch FUD.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 5,482
Likes: 89
From: N/A
The impression I get is that many "enthusiasts" hate EV's because they blame them for their favorite things going away in cars, like V8 engines. Thus EV's have become political because they're associated with emissions regulations, which tie to government policies and leads to silly conclusions like "how dare the guv take away muh glorious V8!" The same dead horse arguments happened in many forums when hybrids like the Prius became popular two decades ago.
Truth is hybrid 4-bangers would have killed off V8's even if EV's didn't exist. EV's are just an easier punching bag for folks online because they're newer.
Truth is hybrid 4-bangers would have killed off V8's even if EV's didn't exist. EV's are just an easier punching bag for folks online because they're newer.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 26,190
Likes: 4,380
From: Alberta
The most egregious in my experience (IRL mostly) is that lithium mining is massively toxic and will kill us all. I've talked to quite a few people that are thoroughly convinced batteries are far worse than oil. They don't know why, never actually looked into it. Not long ago I asked a friend tell me what is so bad about mining for batteries. They started googling on their phone. Yep.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
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From: CA
The most egregious in my experience (IRL mostly) is that lithium mining is massively toxic and will kill us all. I've talked to quite a few people that are thoroughly convinced batteries are far worse than oil. They don't know why, never actually looked into it. Not long ago I asked a friend tell me what is so bad about mining for batteries. They started googling on their phone. Yep.
What about the 50% loss of battery in cold weather...sure if you leave the heater on all night before you drive. It goes on and on and on
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: California
Some members were actually arguing that EVs overall are worse for the environment than ICE when every research paper indicated that EVs are far better over their lifetime. How about it takes hours to charge EVs...sure if you are on AC What about the 50% loss of battery in cold weather...sure if you leave the heater on all night before you drive. It goes on and on and on
What about the 50% loss of battery in cold weather...sure if you leave the heater on all night before you drive. It goes on and on and on
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,409
Likes: 1,642
From: FL
I have no problem with people who "hate" EV's or people who "love" evs and I understand we all have our own opinions about stuff and that's ok with me, doesn't bother me one bit.
My problem is when people go on and on beating others into submission toward their point of view or claming supreme knowledge of the future unless of course they are a prophet. lol
Also don't like back handed insults and mocking others and I will from today start leaving threads quietly in protest and not be a part of it if I see the thread has gone that direction- and again that's just me and just my opinion and I'm just one man but that's how I feel.
My problem is when people go on and on beating others into submission toward their point of view or claming supreme knowledge of the future unless of course they are a prophet. lol
Also don't like back handed insults and mocking others and I will from today start leaving threads quietly in protest and not be a part of it if I see the thread has gone that direction- and again that's just me and just my opinion and I'm just one man but that's how I feel.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,948
Likes: 3,839
From: California
I have no problem with people who "hate" EV's or people who "love" evs and I understand we all have our own opinions about stuff and that's ok with me, doesn't bother me one bit.
My problem is when people go on and on beating others into submission toward their point of view or claming supreme knowledge of the future unless of course they are a prophet. lol
Also don't like back handed insults and mocking others and I will from today start leaving threads quietly in protest and not be a part of it if I see the thread has gone that direction- and again that's just me and just my opinion and I'm just one man but that's how I feel.
My problem is when people go on and on beating others into submission toward their point of view or claming supreme knowledge of the future unless of course they are a prophet. lol
Also don't like back handed insults and mocking others and I will from today start leaving threads quietly in protest and not be a part of it if I see the thread has gone that direction- and again that's just me and just my opinion and I'm just one man but that's how I feel.
On your point, we should always be polite to each other, even if we disagree. Remember even among EV owners, we have our own likes and dislikes. We don't like EV'S just because it's an EV. Some like Tesla, some don't. Some hate the new Mercedes EQS, and some don't. EV owners are just as distinctly different as non EV owners.
Lastly, as one of the members of this forum, if you see another member berating or putting down another member, you shouldn't just leave the thread, but you should speak up. Yes, even if it's me. We all need to be put in our places on occasion
Last edited by AMIRZA786; Jun 7, 2022 at 10:54 PM.