"Fine" is relative. It will continue to run, maybe. Don't change the oil and its not going to run. Never replace the timing belt and it could grenade. Its reliable like a basic Toyota because it really is just a basic Toyota. It has a very well engineered and reliable engine and transmission, normal 5/6 speed transmission, naturally aspirated engine with no fancy direct injection or high pressure fuel system, basic hydraulic 2 piston brakes, without the air suspension its solid and basic double wishbone suspension front and rear, no AWD so no front half shafts or transfer case to worry about...not a lot to go wrong...but not a lot of sophistication either. Give the 430 air suspension and the suspension becomes a big issue.

When you go to the LS460, you basically have a vehicle that is dramatically more complex, gone is everything basic about the 430, you have direct injection and a high pressure fuel system, no double wishbone, multi-link front and rear coil or air suspension, electronic brake booster with 4 piston brakes, electronic power steering, 8 speed trans...there is just a LOT more to go wrong...go to the LS500 and now we have turbos and it becomes even more complex...and will have even higher maintenance needs.

So the mystery of Toyota reliability lies in the simplicity of their vehicles, when they become more complex the gap between the Germans and Lexus insofar as reliability is concerned shrinks rapidly. Those old Benz vehicles, like your R129 in many ways, are also relatively simple and with that simplicity comes low maintenance needs and trouble free longevity.

 

I'm sorry to the people who brag about their car going 200k miles and never needed anything or just needed a few things, uhm NO your car is nowhere close to the condition it was when it was new. lol

Yes, while it may be true the car looks and runs and drives ok, it needs things that may not be seen.
That's another reason I've been hanging on to my RX330.

I originally bought it with the intention for a 2nd car for my wife to drive occasionally but it fit our needs so well it became our daily driver.

BUT, at 120k miles at time of purchase it needed a LOTTT of work to make like new again.
Entire brakes & suspension refresh including struts and engine mounts.

For dependability went ahead and did water pump, timing belt, coils & plugs, radiator, hoses, etc, etc, etc.

Did it "need" all that?
Only if I wanted to bring it up to like new condition the best I can but engine & transmission still has high miles at 160k miles now and I can't rewind the clock on that. lol

 

Mostly all correct except that the 430 uses opposed piston calipers at all 4 corners with quad pistons front just like the 460, it's suspension in the rear is also very similar and the double A-arms are a high end config of that type. Not a multilink no but still a nice double A system with alum uprights.

The Germans actually do this level of car better IMO, their systems are usually easier to access/they put the stuff likely to break up high/down low and parts are cheaper/easier to get.

However the BIG difference is that all that complexity gets you a level of car Lexus has never made, aka it's worth it.

 

Still simpler and less to go wrong than with a multi-link type.

That suspension difference is huge. Thats what makes the 460 and my S Class ride as well as they ride, yet feel much smaller and handle as well as they do. The LS400 and LS430 are much more of a one trick pony, they ride well but they don't handle well. Its truly amazing to get off of a highway and have that incredible hovercraft ride and get onto a twisty backroad in WV and have the same car deliver an enjoyable handling experience that belies its size and soft nature. The tradeoff is higher maintenance cost, but like you said its worth it.

 

I don't think a late updated 460 would have much trouble and is pretty much as solid as any LS.

 

Its very solid, but it will absolutely cost more to maintain over time than an LS430 just because its a much more complex car. No question about that. The suspension alone, all of those control arms and the wear on the bushings, etc.

 

The multilink would like to have a word with you.....

If you repair it yourself it's not horrible but if you buy OE parts it's quite bad. Even aftermarket is about 30% more expensive

 

Good points, Margate. Totally agree. That is the case with most vehicles.

 

Yeah OE control arms are $4,000...

Went and drove a few cars this afternoon, drove an Aviator, a Telluride and a CX-90....will post another thread about them

 

Suspensions give up in those regardless?

 

They require bushing and control arm replacement more frequently, and when they do there are many more parts which increases cost.

 

Yep, they wear in such a manner that one of the links wearing out fully leads to a very quick and noticeable system degradation. Aka the system doesn't hide an issue as well as double A arms do in the same way double A arms can't hide issues as well as a strut car.

You also must change all links at once or the old ones will be killed very quickly if paired with partial new units

 

Very interested to hear your thoughts. I didn't like the Aviator as much as I thought I would and haven't driven the CX-90.

 

Haven't heard of a whole lot of trouble with the 8AR-FTS (is/nx200t). As for the V35a - other than the wastegate actuators... initially... what else?

DI issues with Toyota's system are practically unheard of. I've looked. GS300 (maybe), the older DI-only engines (again maybe), that's it. An IS250 having issues with carbon buildup in Europe is... I don't know, it doesn't make sense but I've heard of none. No need to talk about the twin injected ones.

Chains don't suddenly snap. Valvetrain tends to just work.

Oil and coolant tend not to leak. Toyota's coolant is top spec, but the OEM Toyota oil (even if full synth) is quite mediocre. MB/BMW OEM oil is about as good as it gets short of the most expensive rated oils that you can buy.

Generally no brittle parts in the wrong places.

Sorry, but Toyotas do generally just last more, assuming equal "complexity". Notable exceptions - their v8 diesel and its ability to breathe dust (TLC200/LX450d), their KD diesels that like to crack pistons, the 2ZZ-GE (not sure how it's a Toyota engine).

Old suspension links don't necessarily degrade the same way and at the same time. Different types of bushings (solid, cut, oil filled, harder or softer rubber). The LS460 front UCA bushings are a bit of an Alfa 147 case (but not quite ).

Electronics are not even a contest.

The issues come when something does need to be replaced - simple repairs tend to become very costly due to the way things are coupled. Ball joints & spherical bushings only sold as part of alu knuckles, for example (there goes >$500 a corner). Brake actuators that are (for some models) sold as a whole assembly, even though what wears out is the motor (and maaaaybe the accumulator). Hybrid batteries that are sold together with the DC-DC converter. Practically unserviceable transmissions, as stout as they are. They won't even separately sell you the bench (lower) foam for the front passenger seat on some models - because of the occupancy sensor.

 

The Aviator depends on the trim. You have to get one with the air suspension or it feels very much like an Explorer. On air they ride really nice, and they are packaged better than the Explorer inside too. Issue is money, it’s not $85,000 good.

I liked the CX-90, definitely sportier and more dynamic.