Lol if we were at prices two years ago, I'd say that's like $8 to top off your tank.

 

Oh it will. It’s not utopian, it’s just business. Business finds a way towards success. Every change presents new opportunities. EVs and their unique needs open up a new set of opportunities for those sharp enough to take advantage of them.

It was $23 lol

 

Not anymore than you are, but you are refusing to see my perspective.


First of all, I am talking about places like NYC, I though I made it clear when I said major cities in my previous post. I'm well aware that gas station owners make little money on gas, and in places with expensive real estate they will lose money on selling electricity. Most gas stations around here have 3-6 parking spots, and their entire business model revolves around customers quickly going in and out of the store buying high margin items. There is little they can offer to people idling for extending period of times charging their cars, and the 20 minute claim is a hard stretch even for a Tesla super charger under ideal conditions.

I can tell you what will happen in places like NYC if they are forced to install these chargers - they will let all paying customers use these spots to come to the store, and then if they discover EV owners start taking up these spots for extended periods of time, they'll just break the chargers to prevent this.

 

Respectfully, your perspective is entirely driven by your anti-EV viewpoint. You're ignoring all the upside and focusing only on the challenges like you always do.

No other US city basically is like NYC.

They'll charge enough for electricity that it works for them, or they will adapt in other ways...or they will fail. Thats the way the market works.

When we get to where there is enough EV demand, a solution will arise to meet that demand I promise you. Its not something that will happen overnight, but you will have more and more EVs on the road year over year, thats just obvious.

As for the time, its a fact you just refuse to accept it. It takes about 20 minutes to charge most new EVs to 80%. EV owners will "grab a charge" as they need to outside their homes where they can. EV owners don't need to interface with a "charging station" in the way an ICE owner interfaces with a gas station except in limited circumstances, and the solution for this will look different than what you are accustomed to now.

 

You are correct, however there is a bit of a nuance - without government subsidies the whole business of EVs and EV chargers ceases to exist. The opportunities are mostly open to those with the right connections to take advantage of.

 

You are totally speculating. If a crazy insane City like Los Angeles can have Super Chargers everywhere, why can't NYC? LA is a densely populated, crowded city where space is a premium. You're just not interested in EV'S or chargers and thus looking at this from a negative lense

 

That may have been true at one time, but it is no longer true. The momentum towards EVs is a runaway train at this point. Its happening, manufacturers are all in.

 

This idea that an EV owner is taking up a space for an "unreasonable amount of time"...my question is...why do they want to? In my office they have an issue with EV owners hogging the charger spaces, that makes sense because they are at work all day anyways. But, if I had an EV why would I want to park it at a gas station for hours? Or at a store way longer than I wanted to be shopping in the store? What am I doing while my car is parked there?!

It again is that NYC mentality where people are trying to stash cars places to park them long term that doesn't exist anywhere else.

 

Nope. It is documented here that I had an order placed for an EV in 2013. I have no problems with EV, I have a problem with EVs being forced while challenges are being ignored.


Plenty of places in the US with expensive real estate, without subsidies the rate they'll have to charge is going to be extremely expensive.

Sorry, the 20 minutes is just not nonsense, this is not how math works. Again, it is a far stretch for a Tesla supercharger under ideal conditions, much less for a charger at a gas station that charges at a slower rate. And the whole "grab a charge" may work for occasional customer who has a charger at home, but it doesn't work for people who can't charge at home. They will have to either spend a few hours charging once a week, or charge daily for 20 minutes - it is akin to getting full tank of gas once a week, or filling up 1/4ish tank daily.

 

I've been to NYC and people face the same parking and lack of parking spaces in LA, and even worse in SF. You're right, it's definitely a mentality

 

And again, this is very nuanced, in the countries where governments do not provide subsidies EVs do not exist.

That being said, it isn't very hard to calculate a non subsidized business model for an EV charging station. Cost of real estate lease/purchase, permits, construction costs, cost of equipment and lines, maintenance, cost of electricity itself. Lets crunch some numbers to see how much they have to charge per kw in order for it to be profitable?

 

NYC plans on having 40,000 publicly accessible Level 2 charging stations and 6,000 DC fast chargers installed by 2030.
The DC fast chargers will be located in municipal parking lots. The consumer would pay for parking and .35 per kWh. The first hour of parking would be free.

DC Fast Charger Program

In September 2017, Mayor de Blasio announced a $10 million investment in EV fast charging stations. NYC DOT, in conjunction with MOS, is building a network of fast chargers across the city. These hubs will feature up to four DC fast chargers (three 50kW and one 150 kW) and two Level 2 chargers. Hubs will be in city-owned public parking lots and garages.

The first two DC fast charging hubs are the Court Square Municipal Garage in Queens and the Delancey/Essex Municipal Garage in Manhattan. The City will continue to install DC fast chargers to support the growing number of EVs. More DC fast charging is planned for municipal lots in 2022.

How it works:

• An EV driver parks in a DC fast charger space
• Driver begin a charging session via the EV Connect Appor by swiping or tapping their credit or debit card on the charger
• The driver plugs in their vehicle
• The app will notify the driver when the vehicle's battery is 80 percent charged (depending on the vehicle this may take 30 to 60 minutes)

Notes: Each charger has CHAdeMO and CCS connectors, which are compatible with most EVs. Tesla owners will be able to use the fast chargers with Tesla’s CHAdeMO adapter.

The fee to charge is 35 cents per kWh consumed. Drivers must pay for parking at the municipal lots. DC fast charger customers will have the cost of the first hour of parking deducted from their charging session.



Another interesting article…

https://electrek.co/2021/09/09/nyc-d...rks-in-the-us/

 

So you've charged a Tesla before?. I've charged numerous times at a Supercharger and 20-80% takes about 20 minutes so I don't see how this is a far stretch. An 80% charge gives me 200 miles so why do i have to charge everyday? Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

Yeah and there are chargers installed in many garages in NYC, however they are for compliance only. Garages operate first come first serve, and most of them are full by 9am, overfilled well above capacity, with cars parked in the drive paths, and attendants shuffle cars around all day long to get them in and out. Most of these charger spots are taken by regular cars, and if you show up with an EV they will just tell you no chargers are available, you'll be lucky to even get a parking spot.

Much the same thing will happen if they do this nonsense at gas stations in NYC.

 

Another mistake they are doing with these chargers is placing them in prime spots, be it a garage, a parking lot at a hotel, or a rest area. They should instead install these at far ends of parking lots, so other drivers don't park their ICEs in them.