We've discussed this a little in some other threads, but I had an experience today that really made this point well.

As you know I have owned many Asian cars (primarily Japanese Toyota and Lexus cars, but I did also have a Korean Kia) and American cars (Ford, GM and Chrysler), but my 2020 S560 is my first German car. The difference in philosophy is really interesting, Asian and American are typically very similar.

My wife's family was in town until today, they have a 2017 Honda Odyssey. After they were all packed up they found that it wouldn't start. Battery was totally dead. I have a ultracapacitor jump starter, but other than that I don't have any jumper cables or jump box or anything like that.

Looking at the engine compartments for the three vehicles here, the thought that went into how one goes about jump starting each car is a really good barometer of the difference.

The Honda you just have regular battery terminals, and you have to struggle to find a neutral ground, none is labeled or straightforward, which is common with Asian and American cars in my experience. We screwed around with the Ultracapacitor and it wouldn't work, which I chocked up to it being faulty. So, we had to get in the Mercedes and go buy jumper cables. Hooked the Odyssey up to the Pacifica (Ain't jumping a car off the Mercedes) and, no go. Figured out, it was a grounding issue, and we tried another screw and it fired up. But, that lack of a well labeled neutral ground cost us over an hour and a trip to an auto parts store. Other issue was big terminals and the cable clamps not hooking on well, the Pacifica was better in this regard as it has a little post off the positive terminal for that, and you had a nice neutral ground but there was no bright label (it is labeled, just doesnt jump out at you). On the Odyssey clamps popping off leads to danger which leads to people getting shocked, and the lack of an easy to find neutral ground leads to people hooking the negative clamp to the negative terminal of the dead battery which risks frying the electrical system. These issues were thought through in the Pacifica and moreso on the Mercedes.

When you look at the Mercedes, theres a red slding door with a positive logo that reveals a simple flat metal tag the jumper cable perfectly clips onto. Then there is a negative logo, and removal of that panel reveals a big, beautiful neutral ground to clamp on to. Simple, well laid out, foolproof, safe. Why don't Honda and Lexus/Toyota lay it out this way? They certainly can...but its a little mechanical detail thing that shows you that Mercedes gives these things a little additional thought.

Is Chrysler unique among other American cars in this way? I know none of my Lexus/Toyota cars ever were, you always had to deal with the terminal and finding a ground in them too. I wonder if this is a result of Chrysler's time spent partnering with Mercedes or if Fords etc are laid out this well now too?

Mercedes positive jump point:





Mercedes neutral ground:




Chrysler positive jump point:




Chrysler neutral ground:

 

i think that's a pretty obscure point, consifering the mercedes cost twice the combined price of the other 2 vehicles.

plus, i've never used a 'grounding point' ever for jumping, just battery to battery... is that bad? never had an issue.

 

In many german cars the battery is hidden in a compartment in the trunk, so they provide separate terminals. There are various small but clever things that are present in just about every make, and then every make has their share of annoyances.

 

Issue was you didn't just jump to battery, no problems doing that and it's also impossible to shock yourself with a car battery.

The German cars do that since the battery is remote, post to XXXX is the best way but if you can't get to the post a terminal is needed. A longer wire has voltage droop that lessens the ability to start/jump and the accuracy of a tender. I have my A8 wired up in the trunk since the tender would overcharge if I used the front posts from said droop.

Lexus/Toyota usually makes the battery very easy to get to, the 460 has very nice "push in center to release" clips over the battery and the 430 is direct access.....it doesn't need any remote points, a better argument for your point would be to grill Lexus over why the battery is not in the trunk or very low in the rear wall of the cabin for better weight distribution and handling. That's a lazy oversight if one is assuming they didn't very intentionally place it there for ease of access.

The German cars do have a lot of nice little extras but so does Lexus and overall for the money it's better in some ways. The German cars if optioned to the sky obviously win except for long term quality. American cars can be very well laid out or just a massive copy/paste/shoehorn, all depends on how much the engineers like the car and how much money they have to play with. I've seen both excellent designs and massively stupid ones that are a fine example of "if it fits it ships"

 

I've found many European cars typically have the battery under the trunk floor hence they have red positive and ground points in the front of the engine bay. I believe the LC500 has the positive terminal under the fuse box cover (passenger side) and the negative can ground to the body typically the strut, because the LC500 battery is in the trunk.

 

In theory it can blow up if one of the batteries has a massive hydrogen leak, but it's not 1940 anymore.

 

Lexus has some batteries in the truck. LS500 comes to mind


A battery on most Lexus models should very easy to access.

Battery in your S560 sits underneath the rear seats (I think). needlessly complicated.

 

All my Toyotas and my Lexus have plastic covers over each battery post that pop off, Red for positive and Black for negative. I've only had to jump my 2006 Camry once when the battery suddenly died (after 5 years) and it was no issue..attached cables to both cars and started it. I usually change out my batteries every 4 years when I notice the starting is getting weaker, and all my Toyotas and my Lexus have automatic lights so I never worry about batteries getting drained.

On another note, you can buy a portable 12v jumper that is small enough to fit in your glove box, I have one for each car, about $60 to $99 on Amazon. Works like a charm

 

I'd need to check, but I think the battery for my Highlander is in the rear compartment, which is common with Toyota hybrids. I've never checked for a negative/grounding posts on any of my current cars. Just hasn't come up. My Chevy Silverado had a well marked post for grounding, and man did I use it. That thing was always on the charger...

 

Yes, thats bad lol. If you read the manual and you read the instructions that come with your jumper cables, or jumper box, you should never hook the negative clamp up to the negative cable on the dead battery, it should always be clamped to a neutral ground.

You could cause a battery explosion, or create a power feedback that could damage the car's electrical system. Trust me, I did that to a car once.

As for the cars, my Pacifica has an obvious neutral ground and it cost the same as the Odyssey. The designers just gave the whole thing more thought, that was the point of the thread.

There certainly are problems doing that, and you absolutely can shock yourself with a car battery. If it was completely safe to jump a battery in that way, thats how carmakers would have you do it in the manual.

Then why did Chrysler do so with the negative terminal right there on the battery under the hood?

Its behind the rear seat, and its HUGE. You would not want that huge battery under the hood. No room for it and the weight distribution would be a negative.

 

I used to deal with the jump-starting issue fairly often decades ago, when batteries weren't as good as they are today, and engine ignition-systems weren't as powerful or efficient. On most vehicles, anything that conducts electricity (which usually means made out of metal rather than plastic) and connecting to (or being part of) the car's metal frame can serve as a ground.

One of my early supervisors, back in the mid-1970s, showed me a very interesting trick....he had previously worked at Avis Rent-a-Car, and was constantly dealing with that himself. My old 1967 Chrysler Newport died one day in the parking lot (I don't remember for sure, but I might have forgotten to turn off the lights the morning after a somewhat dark commute), and I had only one jumper cable, when two were usually needed. Cars had chrome-plated metal bumpers in those days, and he brought his own car up and showed me how to connect the one cable battery-to-battery, and to touch the two cars' bumpers together to complete the circuit. I got started and home without any trouble.....and went and got a new battery the next day just to be one the safe side.

Just as an aside note, he has since passed away, but his son works in the same office, and is on my auto-review-mailing list.

 

Without a dedicated terminal, just connecting the negative cable to any grounding point on the car may not allow enough amps to turn the engine over. When connecting directly to the battery, inspect it for cracks or damage, you don't want a potential explosion, or to fry the electrical system of the good car if there is a short inside the dead battery.

Also, when cranking the bad car, the engine in the good car should be shut off, otherwise you run the risk of frying either alternator due to voltage differences, especially if good car has a much bigger alternator, such as when jumping a small econocar with a pick up truck - too much current can kill the alternator in the smaller car.

 

The issue is with modern cars its hard to find a non painted metal part under the hood in some sort of proximity to the battery where a cable will reach that can serve as a ground if the engineers hadn't put a ground peg there like they did on the Mercedes and the Chrysler. On the Odyssey, I literally just tapped around with the negative terminal until a bolt caused a spark and used that.

Like I said, I fried a car one time using the negative terminal so I will NEVER do that.

Its funny but in the last month not having jumper cables has been an issue here. My contractor was here and his battery went dead, I had no way to help him, and now this. So, I ordered a set of cables to have in the garage and jump boxes for each car.

 

Per the thread-topic, one major difference between German and American engineering, particularly in older-generation German vehicles before they converted to electric power steering, is in the sophistication of the suspension and hydraulic power-steering systems. What the engineers could do was nothing short of amazing in combining an excellent ride/handling combo. One only needed to spend a couple minutes behind the wheel of a past-generation BMW 335i or 528/540i to know exactly what I'm talking about. The M versions were also amazing in a different kind of way, but, as would be expected, much more heavily biased towards handling, at the cost of a stiffer and more uncomfortable ride, particularly in the M3. I was so impressed with the hydraulic-steer 335i I almost bought one, although it was more money than I had cared to spend, I didn't like the way that BMW dealerships and salespeople operated in those days, and he 335 turned out to be unreliable on the road, with defective fuel-pumps.

 

The 335i was fine, I had a 2010 335i coupe until it drowned during Sandy in 2012, the fuel pump recall isn't the end of the world. It most certainly had a driving prowess, but if is a great example of highlighting the difference between German, US, and Japanese cars. It had a horrendous audio system, a bunch of exposed hardware, and basically no cup holders. It did have pop out cup holders on the passenger side, but they were far too flimsy to hold a cup. Any American or Japanese car of that era would have a ton of cup holders, and a premium Japanese car would always have a good audio system.