US News & World Report ranks the ES #4 in the segment which is pretty good considering they also include E Class, 5 Series and G80 in the segment.

 

Very strange anyone would compare it to the E or 5 or G80. I think it is in a segment all to itself

 

If it is compared with the 3 series and C class, its up there with them in terms of sales as they are all considered entry level luxury. Its an odd duck so doesn't really compete with anybody...but a good strategy as it sells a ton of units.

 

ES is a value proposition, for entry sedan price you get a entry sedan with flexed length and interior space.

 

The segment as they see it also includes the Acura TLX, Caddy CT5 as well as Audi A6, Volvo S90. A wide mix of models. I agree that the ES350 is hard to classify. What other cars did CR rank it with?

 

isn’t that what a IS is for?

even these cars it doesn’t really compare. I used to compare perfectly with the Lincoln MKS sedan until that was cancelled. And the Buick LaCrosse which was a Avalon and ES type competitor. I didn’t look what CR compared it too.

 

They are all entry level and around the same price. That's the only reason I would compare them.

 

I wonder if they re-mapped the transmission shifting so that it isn't abruptly shifting from 3rd to 1st or 2nd when coming out of a yield sign or near stop. If it's been re-mapped, I wonder if Lexus could offer it, via a TSB, for my 2019 F-Sport.

 

The closest thing to a direct ES competitor would be those long wheelbase FWD entry-level sedans sold exclusively in China like Mercedes's A-Class L or Audi's A4 L.


I'm sure Mercedes and Audi would sell bucketloads of them in North America if they brought them over, but it would be at the cost of cannibalizing their more premium offerings like the E-Class/A6, just like how the ES cannibalized GS sales. Chasing numbers with cheaper offerings brings a brand downmarket.

 

I always have a problem when people say ES does better than GS like GS is not good enough or something. Of course it does better than GS when it's a discounted same size vehicle. Had they made GS the size of LS for the price of GS then LS would have been on the chopping block instead of GS. Truth of the matter is ES still is the origingal part of the Lexus project while GS was a nice addition to spread the platform costs of LS and Crown. GS has always been a side project and if not for super succesful second gen it would have been canned right after failed second gen. ES was their to infiltrate Toyota vanilla OEM parts under premium L badge and capitalize on it, ES sitll does that to this day.

 

well that wasn't the term used... "geriatrics" was, which isn't generally considered complimentary.

anyway, onward... regardless what any of us think, the ES will continue to sell.

 

I gotta say, I love my ES... if it had more power with RWD/AWD I would keep it a lot longer. It was my first FWD car and I miss having more of a sporty car.

 

so it's your fault the GS went away.

 

Believe it or not the closest thing to the 7ES at least dimension/architecture wise is the current gen Accord. I've posted about this in other subs, but the Accord is nearly identical in every single metric/dimension/measurement as the ES (and by extension the Avalon). Like literally almost every dimension. Particularly exterior wise. That puts the Camry in an odd spot cause the ES/Avalon are supposed to be a bigger version of the Camry... which is the direct competitor with the Accord. Does this mean the next Camry needs to be bigger since size sells? if so, what happens to the next Avalon/ES? Definitely a case of size creep going on.

The ES is vastly superior to the accord of course, but in terms of size, nearly identical in nearly every way possible.

 

I think it's more so the GS isn't good enough... when compared to german rivals. (low seller)

That's a big gamble to invest in development of an all new GS when the last GS didn't sell... only to compete with the already well-selling ES. you can see how that gamble didn't make sense for lexus, especially in a crossover market where they'd rather divert resources to the next NX, RX, UX, and LX and so forth.