Toyota Kills All V8 Engine Development
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
The temperature of this planet fluctuates, it has been doing that for millions of years, temperatures on other planets fluctuate too, there are different weather/climate patterns and they are totally uncontrollable by humans. ICE engines are not causing the climate/weather of this planet, a planet covered mostly by water to change or get worse. There have been major climate events going back hundreds to thousand of years that had nothing to do with man. Flooding has to do with other factors like erosion/poor controls/people living/developing closer and closer to water, same with California fires which is mainly from the combustible makeup of the plant/tree life/soils that has been going on for a long time. Pretty much every doom and gloom prediction about the climate/weather of this planet by "experts" has been totally wrong. The public is actually not demanding EV's or more importantly being forced into them by gov/politicians, their sales overall are pretty minuscule compared to ICE, the forced adoption to EV's has more to do with power/money/politics then "saving the planet" which is a total farce.
Whether EV's are adopted in mass or ICE stays it will make zero difference on the world your kids are living in. EV's solve basically nothing environmentally and create their own set of problems that are likely worse then just staying mostly with ICE, continuing to develop it, there is no free lunch with EV's when it comes to environmental impact. Pick your poison. Gas cars have their set of negatives that are already known and dealt with and so do EV's like massively increased energy demands/usage that more larger plants will need to be built to cope with and they pollute, massive Lithium strip mining that absolutely destroys the areas it is utilized, Nickel mining and processing is filthy along with other rare earth metals, fires from EV's which will be more common, what to do with all those large dead batteries, the extra weight of EV's on our roads and the damage they will cause, the extra charging infrastructure that needs to be added to entire countries, the fact that EV's make little to no profits unless you price them very high which means auto companies will need constant bailouts/incentives. The forced mass implementation of EV's on the public will be damaging to the environment, won't solve anything to do with climate and will cost tens of trillion of dollars if not hundreds for something that is not solving really anything and creating its own set of problems, ICE may not be the prettiest solution but the infrastructure is all already there, it is pretty cheap, we have plenty of oil and everything is already set up, there is no extra strain on the environment keeping ICE and it gets cleaner and cleaner every year. Even forcing EV's on the public is still not going to get rid of ICE when it comes to aircraft, boats, large transport trucks etc so the effects will be even more minuscule as those things generate a lot of pollution too.
I just find it a little silly when we are talking about V8's that it gets brought up that they are somehow ruining the planet, that could not be further from the truth. It is the sort of the same when talking about high performance exotic sports cars and someone brings up how irresponsible they are to the planet when in reality they do absolutely nothing, the tens of millions of Pris and electrics on the road not to mention big SUV's and Pickups driven every day do far more damage then the tens of thousands of exotic sports cars that are rarely driven even twice a week.
A meteor/asteroid strike or Yellow Stone going poses far more threat to the US and this planet then V8's or ICE cars and we are doing almost nothing about those very real threats because there is no real money or power or feel good mentality to be gained by it.
Whether EV's are adopted in mass or ICE stays it will make zero difference on the world your kids are living in. EV's solve basically nothing environmentally and create their own set of problems that are likely worse then just staying mostly with ICE, continuing to develop it, there is no free lunch with EV's when it comes to environmental impact. Pick your poison. Gas cars have their set of negatives that are already known and dealt with and so do EV's like massively increased energy demands/usage that more larger plants will need to be built to cope with and they pollute, massive Lithium strip mining that absolutely destroys the areas it is utilized, Nickel mining and processing is filthy along with other rare earth metals, fires from EV's which will be more common, what to do with all those large dead batteries, the extra weight of EV's on our roads and the damage they will cause, the extra charging infrastructure that needs to be added to entire countries, the fact that EV's make little to no profits unless you price them very high which means auto companies will need constant bailouts/incentives. The forced mass implementation of EV's on the public will be damaging to the environment, won't solve anything to do with climate and will cost tens of trillion of dollars if not hundreds for something that is not solving really anything and creating its own set of problems, ICE may not be the prettiest solution but the infrastructure is all already there, it is pretty cheap, we have plenty of oil and everything is already set up, there is no extra strain on the environment keeping ICE and it gets cleaner and cleaner every year. Even forcing EV's on the public is still not going to get rid of ICE when it comes to aircraft, boats, large transport trucks etc so the effects will be even more minuscule as those things generate a lot of pollution too.
I just find it a little silly when we are talking about V8's that it gets brought up that they are somehow ruining the planet, that could not be further from the truth. It is the sort of the same when talking about high performance exotic sports cars and someone brings up how irresponsible they are to the planet when in reality they do absolutely nothing, the tens of millions of Pris and electrics on the road not to mention big SUV's and Pickups driven every day do far more damage then the tens of thousands of exotic sports cars that are rarely driven even twice a week.
A meteor/asteroid strike or Yellow Stone going poses far more threat to the US and this planet then V8's or ICE cars and we are doing almost nothing about those very real threats because there is no real money or power or feel good mentality to be gained by it.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...48969720323378
ICE may not fully go away but a slow transition to EVs are having a positive net impact on the environment.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,911
Likes: 4,269
From: Alberta
Anybody who does, for whatever reason, only simply needs to watch the news. Certain parts of America now flood during sunny days because of sea levels, and certain parts of America and other nations burn much of the warm season now, such as California. That’s not media twisting facts. That’s streets full of water on a sunny day (google sunny day flooding).
EVs give off the impression that is it clean. All the mining of the rare Earth metals are destructive to the Earth. Then there's the processing of said metals and transporting them and etc. Then there's the electricity. We are simply moving emissions from tail pipes to "smoke stacks." Most people view the end product but doesnt think about the process.
Pole Position
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 298
Likes: 101
From: ON
Its been proven that even with the impact from mining and production of EVs, they are still cleaner in their lifetime vs. ICE.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesel.../#298920776d24
Numerous scientific journals support this but the counter argument is much more sparse. In the US, emissions is much more favorable for the EV as most of our energy production isn't coal (less than 30%) but a combination of natural gas, nuclear, and renewables. I bet most EVs have a much cleaner profile in the US because most of them are sold in California to the more affluent buyers who have homes and solar. Even in its infancy, EVs are already cleaner. It will only get more cleaner as the technology to mine these materials and the manufacturing process improves.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesel.../#298920776d24
Numerous scientific journals support this but the counter argument is much more sparse. In the US, emissions is much more favorable for the EV as most of our energy production isn't coal (less than 30%) but a combination of natural gas, nuclear, and renewables. I bet most EVs have a much cleaner profile in the US because most of them are sold in California to the more affluent buyers who have homes and solar. Even in its infancy, EVs are already cleaner. It will only get more cleaner as the technology to mine these materials and the manufacturing process improves.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,814
Likes: 247
From: NY
On a long enough timeline, EVs are cleaner though. More pollution up front, but they run cleaner and will eventually equate to less pollution than ICE on a long time frame Compared to a regular car. Tesla’s Gigafactory is miles ahead of our time, and runs almost completely on clean energy, for instance. Now your biggest culprit is the mining for materials, but there are efforts to find cleaner battery materials, for instance.
I’m not necessarily convinced that EVs are the answer, but I am convinced that ICE is part of the problem. the real answer is way bigger than just cars, and will require radical industrial change and change in expectations of what we do. Lexus is trying to head in the right direction. It’s simply time to end the dependence on ICE and look for a better option. The jury is still out as to what option is truly better, but we are out of time for the doing nothing option.
I’m not necessarily convinced that EVs are the answer, but I am convinced that ICE is part of the problem. the real answer is way bigger than just cars, and will require radical industrial change and change in expectations of what we do. Lexus is trying to head in the right direction. It’s simply time to end the dependence on ICE and look for a better option. The jury is still out as to what option is truly better, but we are out of time for the doing nothing option.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,814
Likes: 247
From: NY
Its been proven that even with the impact from mining and production of EVs, they are still cleaner in their lifetime vs. ICE.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesel.../#298920776d24
Numerous scientific journals support this but the counter argument is much more sparse. In the US, emissions is much more favorable for the EV as most of our energy production isn't coal (less than 30%) but a combination of natural gas, nuclear, and renewables. I bet most EVs have a much cleaner profile in the US because most of them are sold in California to the more affluent buyers who have homes and solar. Even in its infancy, EVs are already cleaner. It will only get more cleaner as the technology to mine these materials and the manufacturing process improves.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesel.../#298920776d24
Numerous scientific journals support this but the counter argument is much more sparse. In the US, emissions is much more favorable for the EV as most of our energy production isn't coal (less than 30%) but a combination of natural gas, nuclear, and renewables. I bet most EVs have a much cleaner profile in the US because most of them are sold in California to the more affluent buyers who have homes and solar. Even in its infancy, EVs are already cleaner. It will only get more cleaner as the technology to mine these materials and the manufacturing process improves.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
They produce at least 80% efficiency for 30 years. They keep producing after that at a reduced efficiency. I'm sure their net impact on the environment is hugely positive especially since they can be recycled. Of course, there are big plans to recycle the lithium ion batteries themselves so the world is taking baby steps to get cleaner.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,911
Likes: 4,269
From: Alberta
Typical energy payback for a solar panel is 4 years. The panels are no doubt difficult to recycle and fairly toxic, but remember recycling all the worn out machinery and infrastructure used in oil production and delivery is MASSIVE. It's so large not sure it can be even calculated.
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,069
Likes: 978
From: Indiana
There is pretty substantial unbiased proof of increased tidal flooding due to sea level rise. One of them is Miami spending hundreds of millions of dollars to pump salt water out of their city and back into the ocean. Online videos of streets flooding during beautiful days can’t be biased. It’s just a video of water in the street. Does the commentator want climate change to stop? Probably. Some videos are just taken on a phone by someone with wet feet, though.
Did they pump millions of gallons into the street to make a fake, biased video? No.
New York is trying to solve the same problem. The depth of water is simply a measurement. Rulers are not biased.
The pandemic has proven just how quickly air cleans up when you stop using mass ICE and stop running factories. The issue isn’t V8s... it’s ICE, deforestation, major Agriculture, industry, etc.
But are ICE on the list? Yes.
You can listen to experts or a guy on the Internet... or you can actually go see tidal flooding and get your feet wet from it. Then you may change your mind pretty quickly.
Did they pump millions of gallons into the street to make a fake, biased video? No.
New York is trying to solve the same problem. The depth of water is simply a measurement. Rulers are not biased.
The pandemic has proven just how quickly air cleans up when you stop using mass ICE and stop running factories. The issue isn’t V8s... it’s ICE, deforestation, major Agriculture, industry, etc.
But are ICE on the list? Yes.
You can listen to experts or a guy on the Internet... or you can actually go see tidal flooding and get your feet wet from it. Then you may change your mind pretty quickly.
Driver
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 86
Likes: 25
From: NV
I tend to agree with Jwconeil. Toyota is funneling all their research to battery tech and fuel cells, it's been all over automotive news in the past months. This was bound to happen in a few years, but I think the pandemic sped things up. Stricter laws mean it's harder and more costly to build these engines. And I don't think the majority of customers mind; especially the younger ones. At my old job, it was a badge of honor to buy a Tesla or something that got 50 MPG. Not me though!
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,269
Likes: 296
From: ------
We really can't do much against asteroids hitting the planet or Yellow Stone going but the transition away from petroleum is something man can control. The impact of having ICE cars on the road was extremely evident across the world during the pandemic.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...48969720323378
ICE may not fully go away but a slow transition to EVs are having a positive net impact on the environment.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...48969720323378
ICE may not fully go away but a slow transition to EVs are having a positive net impact on the environment.
Either way more and more scientists, even some that were all for it, are now saying the green new deal will not work or the effects would be so minute despite spending so much money and changing so much, creating so much misery in many cases for various reason, it would not be worth it and could possibly cause more harm then good.
https://environmentalprogress.org/bi...-climate-scare
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2019/10/0...t-really-work/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#7da9b28e12d6
The pandemic has caused reduced human activity in pretty much all aspects, not just ICE, it is apples and oranges. Mass charging of electrics is going to cause pollution, their extra weight is going to damage roads/bridges, etc.
Instead of dumping so much money into forcing electrics on the population which has more to do with power, control, money that will solve nothing we could be spending more on contingency/mitigation plans to deal with much more serious issues like virus's, disease, cures for various ailments, meteor/asteroid impacts, hurricane flooding(NYC is in major danger if a big one hits at high tide), shoring up for tsunami floods/waves, volcanoes, major earthquakes, cleaning up water ways, etc.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,269
Likes: 296
From: ------
There is pretty substantial unbiased proof of increased tidal flooding due to sea level rise. One of them is Miami spending hundreds of millions of dollars to pump salt water out of their city and back into the ocean. Online videos of streets flooding during beautiful days can’t be biased. It’s just a video of water in the street. Does the commentator want climate change to stop? Probably. Some videos are just taken on a phone by someone with wet feet, though.
Did they pump millions of gallons into the street to make a fake, biased video? No.
New York is trying to solve the same problem. The depth of water is simply a measurement. Rulers are not biased.
The pandemic has proven just how quickly air cleans up when you stop using mass ICE and stop running factories. The issue isn’t V8s... it’s ICE, deforestation, major Agriculture, industry, etc.
But are ICE on the list? Yes.
You can listen to experts or a guy on the Internet... or you can actually go see tidal flooding and get your feet wet from it. Then you may change your mind pretty quickly.
Did they pump millions of gallons into the street to make a fake, biased video? No.
New York is trying to solve the same problem. The depth of water is simply a measurement. Rulers are not biased.
The pandemic has proven just how quickly air cleans up when you stop using mass ICE and stop running factories. The issue isn’t V8s... it’s ICE, deforestation, major Agriculture, industry, etc.
But are ICE on the list? Yes.
You can listen to experts or a guy on the Internet... or you can actually go see tidal flooding and get your feet wet from it. Then you may change your mind pretty quickly.
The fact is people, no matter how "green" and conscious they claim they are still love their electricity and gadgets. Still charging smart phones and other devices every day/night, still using AC/heat, still going out to eat, getting coffee, being transported through vehicles, still cooking, still wanting to travel, vacation, go to clubs, stream music, have nice events to go to. It is all human activity, it all uses electricity or fuel, unless you really start having people live off the land, no more smart phones, no more internet, coffee bars, clubs, sporting events, vacations, traveling to other countries, no more AC/Heat we are going to be using massive amounts of electricity or fuel to keep our comfortable/active lifestyle going. The best thing you can do for the environment and kids if you think ICE or other human activity is so damaging to the planet is not to just buy a electric vehicle but shut the AC/Heat off, get rid of that smart phone and any other gadget, get out of that nice house, live off the land in more of a hut, do not go out, don't buy anything anymore, don't shop, don't eat out or get food from a supermarket, don't travel anymore and get rid of all your cars and use a bicycle to get around instead, that will at least greatly reduce your footprint.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
There are several methods to destroy meteors or throw them off a collision course with earth including nuclear detonations to destroy the meteor or to throw it off course, heat, solar sails, etc. We don't have a single rocket that can track, target and launch a warhead at a incoming asteroid in space in our arsenal even though it is possible to build one and could be done if given enough time but there is no money, political gain, feel good movement to build such a important defense of our planet, we instead utilize all our warheads to fire at countries on this planet which will likely in turn cause a major nuclear exchange that will leave the planet ruined and kill most of its inhabitants.
Either way more and more scientists, even some that were all for it, are now saying the green new deal will not work or the effects would be so minute despite spending so much money and changing so much, creating so much misery in many cases for various reason, it would not be worth it and could possibly cause more harm then good.
https://environmentalprogress.org/bi...-climate-scare
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2019/10/0...t-really-work/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#7da9b28e12d6
The pandemic has caused reduced human activity in pretty much all aspects, not just ICE, it is apples and oranges. Mass charging of electrics is going to cause pollution, their extra weight is going to damage roads/bridges, etc.
Instead of dumping so much money into forcing electrics on the population which has more to do with power, control, money that will solve nothing we could be spending more on contingency/mitigation plans to deal with much more serious issues like virus's, disease, cures for various ailments, meteor/asteroid impacts, hurricane flooding(NYC is in major danger if a big one hits at high tide), shoring up for tsunami floods/waves, volcanoes, major earthquakes, cleaning up water ways, etc.
Either way more and more scientists, even some that were all for it, are now saying the green new deal will not work or the effects would be so minute despite spending so much money and changing so much, creating so much misery in many cases for various reason, it would not be worth it and could possibly cause more harm then good.
https://environmentalprogress.org/bi...-climate-scare
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2019/10/0...t-really-work/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michael.../#7da9b28e12d6
The pandemic has caused reduced human activity in pretty much all aspects, not just ICE, it is apples and oranges. Mass charging of electrics is going to cause pollution, their extra weight is going to damage roads/bridges, etc.
Instead of dumping so much money into forcing electrics on the population which has more to do with power, control, money that will solve nothing we could be spending more on contingency/mitigation plans to deal with much more serious issues like virus's, disease, cures for various ailments, meteor/asteroid impacts, hurricane flooding(NYC is in major danger if a big one hits at high tide), shoring up for tsunami floods/waves, volcanoes, major earthquakes, cleaning up water ways, etc.