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Originally Posted by SNiiP3RView Post
Performance and lack of new technologies is what drove me away from Lexus. But I am keeping the door open and hoping to return again in future. Who knows, perhaps Lexus will once again release something fresh and groundbreaking in the near future. Until then I will be driving something else.
Quote: corradomr2 Close to my sentiments as well. Door is open but held by a thread... and it's a thin one - UX 250h !
Anxious to see to what extent the "new" IS is revised. Expecting interior (dash at minimum) redone, some ext panels, bumpers, lights as well, akin to the '13 LS refresh. But not optimistic on new powertrains.
Exactly my feelings. After being a staunch Lexus owner for years I have moved on. I was looking forward to the new NX but will sadly have to wait until 2022 now. Lexus is being left in the dust. Maybe Toyota with the new Venza will make me smile.
Last edited by bitkahuna; Jun 9, 2020 at 09:53 AM.
exactly... bmw just keeps the train running... obviously flooding the market with used bmw's but they don't care, and i don't blame them.
Is there any data to show there are more used BMWs after 3yrs than MB, Audi or Lexus.
As far as I’m aware all mainstream luxury brands have bulk of sales from leasing.
Quote: Originally Posted by SNiiP3RView Post
Performance and lack of new technologies is what drove me away from Lexus. But I am keeping the door open and hoping to return again in future. Who knows, perhaps Lexus will once again release something fresh and groundbreaking in the near future. Until then I will be driving something else.
Quote: corradomr2 Close to my sentiments as well. Door is open but held by a thread... and it's a thin one - UX 250h !
Anxious to see to what extent the "new" IS is revised. Expecting interior (dash at minimum) redone, some ext panels, bumpers, lights as well, akin to the '13 LS refresh. But not optimistic on new powertrains.
Exactly my feelings. After being a staunch Lexus owner for years I have moved on. I was looking forward to the new NX but will sadly have to wait until 2022 now. Lexus is being left in the dust. Maybe Toyota with the new Venza will make me smile.
10 years back, the Lexus forums were much more optimistic and excited about the products and future that the brand was offering. If you visit other forums, they mostly have praise for the brand because they are happy with the product offerings. I saw this very same thing with Infiniti 5 years back...the enthusiasts weren't very happy and they were quite vocal. I feel Lexus is going through similar issues with not giving the enthusiasts what they want. However, unlike Infiniti, the bread and butter products will do quite well for the most part so Lexus will have continued success in the future. But you will probably see an exodus of enthusiasts over time for sure.
I felt the LFA and LFA inspired cars were the Lexus renaissance period. Really great products that were enthusiast focused but now seems like most of the products are a continuation of Toyota's core (reliable appliances)...which is not a bad thing but catered to a different crowd than 10 years back. I think the people here that complain were the enthusiasts that joined many years back because of the direction Lexus seemingly was headed. I think with the change of direction, its just the expression of disappointment of the change.
... now seems like most of the products are a continuation of Toyota's core (reliable appliances)...which is not a bad thing but catered to a different crowd than 10 years back.
problem is, reliability has soared across all brands, but opinions among long time owners don't change very much if at all, of course, but as those old toyota buyers die off, the younger gens will say "why do people buy toyota's again?" unless they do something.
I think the people here that complain were the enthusiasts that joined many years back because of the direction Lexus seemingly was headed. I think with the change of direction, its just the expression of disappointment of the change.
definitely true. a relative (75 years old) bought a rav4 a year ago and likes it. her sister (80 years old) recently asked me if she should get a rav4 as well to replace her (barely used) camry (that she got connect into by the dealer with cloth interior that was replaced by some third party shop with leather, ugh). i said it will certainly be a very safe and reliable choice, but i think you should look at alternatives as well. i have no doubt she won't look at anything else, will get a rav4, and will be taken to the cleaners by the dealer without realizing. her daughter (a 'youngster' at 52 years old ), just got a rav4 as well (leased).
the 52 year old had been a 'rebel' before because she had a couple of honda accords before the new rav4.
that's toyota's market. safe but dying off. a generation ago that was gm and ford.
back to the delayed IS, i wonder if it was delayed to have more impact beyond riots, viruses, and mayhem, or because they're rethinking what they're announcing. i suspect the former.
back to the delayed IS, i wonder if it was delayed to have more impact beyond riots, viruses, and mayhem, or because they're rethinking what they're announcing. i suspect the former.
TLX Type-S and Lexus knows whatever IS they put out now, will be instantly compared to it and unless it has the new TTV6 or the 5L V8, it will be DOA. Then again, I dont think Lexus really cares about their cars.
problem is, reliability has soared across all brands
Not so sure I agree. My brother had to have his Hyundai engine replaced before 99,000km. Whole exhaust had rotted out as well we before . Lucky both repairs were under warranty
His Santa Fe XL seems to be better built. His used BMW 3 series diesel will likely be a nightmare
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Jun 9, 2020 at 10:30 AM.
problem is, reliability has soared across all brands, but opinions among long time owners don't change very much if at all, of course, but as those old toyota buyers die off, the younger gens will say "why do people buy toyota's again?" unless they do something.
Do you have data to back up your point that reliability has soared across all brands? The data you get from a simple google search tells a way different story. I may agree that some brands have improved immensely...but still Toyota leads the pack when it comes to reliability.
Do you have data to back up your point that reliability has soared across all brands? The data you get from a simple google search tells a way different story. I may agree that some brands have improved immensely...but still Toyota leads the pack when it comes to reliability.
Everything depends on what people define as reliability/dependability. I think across the board, bitkahuna is correct, that in the traditional sense of mechanical failures and catastrophic type issues, reliability/dependability is greatly improved.
Now most studies and surveys seek to find issues in things that are more about customer satisfaction, electronic and software items like Voice recognition, etc.
From JD Power (I know there are tons of mixed feelings about JD Power, but let's at least use the consistency of their reporting)
TROY, Mich.: 12 Feb. 2020 — Love is in the air. Maybe it’s the proximity to Valentine’s Day or maybe it’s that owners see dependability of their three-year-old vehicles improving in 2020. According to the J.D. Power 2020 U.S. Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS), released today, overall vehicle dependability improves 1.5% from 2019.
“Despite the increased adoption of complex vehicle technology, dependability continues to improve,” said Dave Sargent, vice president of global automotive at J.D. Power. “There’s no question that three-year-old vehicles today are better built and more dependable than same-age vehicles were in previous years. However, the rapid introduction of technology is putting increased pressure on dependability, so it would not be surprising to see problem levels plateau, or even increase, over the next few years.”
The study, now in its 31st year, measures the number of problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of their three-year-old vehicles. The 2020 study measures problems in model-year 2017 vehicles. A lower score reflects higher quality, and the study covers 177 specific problems grouped into eight major vehicle categories.
Following are key findings of the 2020 study:
Vehicle dependability improves—but at a slower rate: The industry average in 2020 is 134 PP100, which is an improvement of just 2 PP100 from 2019. (However, in 2019, there was an improvement of 6 PP100 from 2018.) Despite the slowing rate of improvement, 2020 marks automakers’ best performance in the history of the study.
Dependability gains driven by crossovers and SUVs: Crossovers and SUVs still have slightly more problems than cars, but the gap is narrowing. On average, owners of crossovers/SUVs experience 134 PP100, compared with 127 PP100 by car owners. This 7 PP100 gap has narrowed considerably from 2019. With crossovers/SUVs now accounting for more than 50% of new vehicle sales annually, it is critical that automakers achieve the same level of quality and dependability as for cars.
In-vehicle technology shows greatest improvement: Audio/Communication/Entertainment/ Navigation (ACEN) is the most improved category (by 2.3 PP100), but still accounts for more problems than any other category in the study. Owners continue to cite problems with voice recognition, Bluetooth®connectivity and navigation systems. “Many owners complain about these systems early in the ownership experience and, three years later, they’re still frustrated with them,” Sargent said. “We’re seeing improvement, but automakers still have a long way to go to before they can declare victory in this area.”
Most Dependable Model: The Lexus ES is the highest-ranked model in the 2020 study. Its score of 52 PP100 is the best ever recorded in the 31-year history of the study.
First all-electric model receives an award: The Nissan LEAF is the first all-electric model to receive a segment-level award, for compact car.
Highest-Ranked Brands
Genesis ranks highest in overall vehicle dependability among all brands, with a score of 89 PP100. This is the first year Genesis has been included in the study. Lexus ranks second with a score of 100 PP100 (an improvement of 6 PP100 year over year). Buick (103 PP100) ranks third, Porsche (104 PP100) ranks fourth and Toyota (113 PP100) ranks fifth.
Cadillac shows considerable improvement with a reduction of 35 PP100 from 2019. Other above-average brands with strong improvement include Mazda (reduction of 29 PP100), Lincoln (by 28 PP100), Ford (by 20 PP100), Buick (by 15 PP100) and Volkswagen (by 15 PP100).
Toyota Motor Corporation receives six segment awards for the Lexus ES, Lexus GX, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Avalon, Toyota Sienna and Toyota Tundra. The Toyota brand receives the highest number of segment awards in the study.
General Motors Company receives five segment awards: for the Buick Encore and Buick Regal, and for the Chevrolet Equinox, Chevrolet Silverado HD and Chevrolet Tahoe.
Do you have data to back up your point that reliability has soared across all brands? The data you get from a simple google search tells a way different story. I may agree that some brands have improved immensely...but still Toyota leads the pack when it comes to reliability.
I would say word of mouth and long term resale values for some fo Toyota's competitors would prove evidence either way...not models but brands as a whole...Also, car reliability under the warranty period is a moot point...its under warrantly....when you get to 9-15 years out, then you see what lasts and what doesn't.......I don't understand why anyone would lease a Toyota or Lexus, they are made for the long long haul... None-word of mouth publications supports Toyota as being the king of reliability.
Now, all that said. My sisters Lexus IS left her stranded on a long trip. And my 4Runner broke and I needed a tow (but that was in its 16th year on the road)
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Jun 9, 2020 at 01:33 PM.
Surprisingly, Lexus is one of the most commonly leased brands, higher than Benz and Audi. And Infiniti surpasses almost ALL lux brands barring Maserati.
Also, car reliability under the warranty period is a moot point...its under warrantly...
As someone who has a troublesome car that is under warranty I don't agree. Even with the warranty having to constantly take a car in for repair is very annoying.
Surprisingly, Lexus is one of the most commonly leased brands, higher than Benz and Audi. And Infiniti surpasses almost ALL lux brands barring Maserati.
Thats actually really surprising given the best thing Lexus has going for them is long-term reliability. I'd rather lease a BMW as they have insane deals most of the time.
Thats actually really surprising given the best thing Lexus has going for them is long-term reliability. I'd rather lease a BMW as they have insane deals most of the time.
The article claims that the most commonly leased vehicles are small luxury sedans. Guess that means most of those leases were IS and ES (ES is midsize but has an entry level pricetag).
), just got a rav4 as well (leased).
