The jury is out on this one until the launch. Hopefully its not based on the current platform but some market developments (The upcoming IS will not launch in Australia, and Europe) point towards this being a very very very facelifted current gen.

If its a breath of fresh air and this all turns out to be a brand new, TGNA based RWD product, I think it will give the competitors a run for its money. Finally the folks at Lexus would be unleashing their true potential and not relying on pumping incentives to move an older design.

 

3 Year reliability is nothing. That's more akin to initial quality. The true test of reliability is after the 5 year mark IMO.

 

a vastly different experience for those who lease vs those who buy for the long term. When you get past the powertrain warranties of 60K, you want to know your stuff doesn’t break. That said, if I were to lease (or buy for the shorter term), it would 100% not be a Toyota/Lexus...would love to try a VW or Chevrolet etc.....but for the short term Another possibility is to get those whopping rebates like they do with GM and collect the cash and then roll the dice.

 

probably so, but in 5 years of someone's ownership there's SO many variables (where the car is, what kind of driving is involved, what kind of maintenance has been done, what model year it is, what recalls/tsbs have been done, etc, etc).

there's very little data out there on cars 5+ yrs old, and besides, if it does, even overall, great after 5 years, doesn't mean a new one will be as reliable... likely a completely different vehicle at that point.

but sure, as we've discussed a zillion times... want a reliable used vehicle? try to find an older toyota/lexus or honda/acura that doesn't have a zillion miles on it.

 

The more people blindly defend Lexus and their dithering, bad decisions, keeping un competitive products for as long as possible, killing enthusiast cars, etc and attacking buyers/owners bringing this to attention the more complacent they are going to be and the more they are just going to focus and rely on FWD Toyota based vehicles, crappy 4 cylinders, and dull CUV's.

The GS already seems to be being replaced by a dull FWD Toyota based car, who is to say they won't do that to the IS either especially with this odd last minute "update" on a car that has plunged in sales because it is no longer seen as very competitive and now they cancelled the showing of that update because I think it was going to be really lacking, disappointing, there was not going to be a competitive 6 cylinder put it in it, I would not be surprised if they just dropped the 3.5V6 and think the 4 cyl will do.

The LS460 got one of these late "updates", it did not gain any power or performance, same engine, some say the changes made it look worse, some liked it, and then they totally screwed up the new LS and sales have plummeted. Lexus deserves criticism how they are doing things, that is how you hopefully get better results.

 

Anybody who can't see this is a failure is a Fanboy. Period, nobody in their right mind should be happy about this. This should have been another ISF debut instead of the same car we've seen for 10 years!!!

 

I think you totally misread SW17LS. He was saying he wants more things like the IS, which are RWD-based and not based on any Toyota. Here's the thing - investing in the IS implies investing in other RWD-based products. We were hoping there'd be a new IS using a new TNGA-based architecture, which would hint at further investment in other products - maybe future LF-1 Limitless production model or something to that effect. But there's nothing wrong with choice between "sporty" and "luxury".

 

I doubt you will ever see any other Lexus (Lexus only) products that are RWD under the $50K price point going forward. (fuel cell or EV excluded) Lexus sells so money sub-$50K vehicles that any new model would either never sell, or just eat into their huge profits. A partnership with BMW or Mazda, I could definitely see that.

 

I understand the IS is not a FWD Toyota. My point is they are focusing more on FWD Toyotas than cars that are proper high end luxury platforms like the IS. Hence why we are seeing a third refresh of the IS instead of an all new IS, cancellation of the GS, no proper RWD competitors to the X5, X7, GLE and GLS. I am a car enthusiast and a Lexus enthusiast and sure, I have an opinion on what Lexus does across a wide variety of segments.

I'm not "bitter" about anything, I am frustrated that Lexus as a brand is hurting themselves sure, since I'm a Lexus fan and have been for a long time. When the time comes for me I will just move on from the brand to somewhere else, not anything I would ever be bitter about.

V8s will keep a place in the luxury space. Lexus isn't really totally in that space anymore by their own choosing. They have a lot more in common with Acura than they do say Mercedes or BMW today, sadly.

 

57% of Lexus customers lease, same % as BMW and a higher % than MB or Audi. So, less Lexus customers care about long term reliability than those who don't.

100% agree. I watched a video yesterday on the UX, and that vehicle has no business being a Lexus...sorry.

Totally agree.

Thanks for the clarification, you're correct.

I'd love to see them develop some RWD products OVER $50k. $50k is nothing, the new IS can be well over $50k if its the right product. The fact that Lexus is so focused on the sub $50k market is part of the issue, its just not a tier one luxury brand anymore.

 

Did I say there is something wrong between the choice between “sport” and “luxury”? He is obviously more on the luxury side, but was upset they tilted the LS to the sporty side. I was not so pleased the M550i was tilted more to the luxury side lacking steering feel. Brands and models change from time to time. I don’t go the BMW forum saying “BMW has lost it’s way, time to move on” which is what he said and has been saying about Lexus without owning a German car. You can say you would like to see this or that new products and improvements without suggesting people need to move on. His point of view is tilted towards leasing, so he isn’t as interested in long term reliability. I want better for Lexus. I want new products. But I also care about quality, long term reliability, comfort, customer service, depreciation, maintenance costs. I like how it was suggested I am a fanboy, such a fanboy that I just tried a m550i and 718 GTS because because I once listened to and thought the same things as others that are calling me a fanboy. Except I actually did it, and switched. It wasn’t what it was all cracked up to be if you listen to the German fanboys here. There are just some things Lexus does better. Are they perfect, no. Do they need some new products? Yep. For the time being I am sticking with them and driving 2 of the best cars I’ve ever had. Read any review of the GS F and LC and it will confirm their specialness. I am enjoying a naturally aspirated engine with its smooth power, reliability, and better sound while I can still get it. I can say the same for the ES F sport, it’s a great car. I am struggling with this being a Lexus enthusiast forum when anyone who defends Lexus is attacked. It’s not encouraged to be a Lexus fan. I’ve seen It over and over. And apparently credibility has no place here. So enjoy your German cars and Tesla’s or talk about them and promote them with no experience on “car chat”. I’ll be actually buying and driving what I talk about. I’m out 😀

 

What they chose to do to the LS is a small, small part of the problem. They have all but abandoned the market above the ES, the LS is a dud, the LX and GX are ancient, the GS is gone, the IS will be a third time warmed over entry from 2013 that is DOA, the RC will be the same, the LC is their best entry, but aside from styling and exhaust note it really doesn't have anything special to offer, performance is very ho hum. There is no movement from Lexus on ANYTHING over $55,000, and really on anything that isn't a transverse Toyota sourced vehicle. They have basically taken themselves out of the conversation when it comes to true luxury cars. Magazines don't even include them in that conversation or comparison any longer, as an example.

They have lost all their $55k+ customers to other brands because they just stopped supporting them.

Being a fan of something doesn't mean you always think its doing great. People who are fans of sports teams for instance have negative opinions about management, coaching, players...doesn't mean they aren't a fan of the team. I am a huge Lexus fan, I just think that the current people in charge of Lexus are making very poor short sighted decisions and they are in serious danger of permanently damaging the brand.

IMO what gets attacked and rightly so are people who ignore the obvious mistakes that they are making. There are a few people that take any attack on Lexus too personally.



And one of them Lexus cancelled, and the other has no future with the current leadership of the brand. Thats our point, we want more of those special cars...and less forgettable throwaway rebadged 4 cyl Toyota economy cars. Lexus version of the Rav 4 and the CHR doesn't excite anybody...and don't even get me started on the potential Lexus version of the Yaris Cross. Then we're supposed to be happy about a second mid cycle refresh on an 8 year old IS design with carryover engines? Its like they have all of a sudden forgotten what a luxury car is.

 

No offense, but you are reading way into everything. What gives here?

I care about those things - reliability, quality, service - too. In fact, I definitely could see myself driving another Lexus in the future. I'd say my Lexus ownership really solidified my interest in car things. Having said that, where I am right now in my life, it just made more sense to do what I am currently doing - I got a much more affordable "fun" car so that maybe in a few years I could save up for something like an RC F. No more leasing or taking out long loans for me. So ironically, I gave up a Lexus so I could potentially get another one down the road.

I'm sure the GS F and LC 500 are amazing - in fact, I was really impressed by the RC F I test-drove. So I am a big fan of that line of Lexus cars. However, am I somehow unworthy to have opinions here because I don't own one? "I'll be actually buying and driving what I talk about." So, insinuating that I am a phony? I don't know what you want unless it's for everyone to simply agree with you. ClubLexus is not an echo chamber - and that's part of what I like about it.

As a former IS owner I would definitely appreciate it if Lexus showed commitment to continuing to offer some product in the same vein going forward - even a continuation of the RC line itself would be great. That's literally all I was trying to say.

 

This has turned into "car chat" for those who gave up on Lexus. Bye LOL.

 

Anyone who uses the term 'fanboy' is going to get booted from threads. Knock. It. Off.

EVERYONE in this thread has valid perspectives, viewpoints and bias towards their own rationale for what is important to them. If you can't find a way to respect what another member values then you should step back from the keyboard and stop posting.

Some members who come across as "anti Lexus" consistently and who have been allowed to express the same argument time-and-again in every single thread we have about a Lexus vehicle in Car Chat will be asked to come up with a new approach to posting here on CL that maintains our sense of community. Posting negative opinions and critical feedback on something is fine, doing it over and over and over and over is simply trolling and you need to move on from it. Some of you have received PMs over the last few months and I mean to enforce those requests.

Back on topic to the upcoming IS folks. If you want to discuss this post and you think I'm talking about YOU but aren't sure, PM me.