I get what you are saying, but I'm just saying, LTR and/or leasing dont matter based on sales numbers. LTR might matter for the 25% of buyers and most of the used car buyers. If one is leasing, the car most likely goes back anyways and lease rates are within maybe $200 bucks of each other depending on options. If you swing for luxury, that extra $2-300 dont mean much and you go for the one with more power and prestige.

 

It is sad that even just a few short years ago, people generally mention Lexus in the same breath as the Germans. Thanks Akio. Hope you are enjoying yourself in that newly built useless racetrack of yours.

 

I wonder how the FWD UX goes around that racetrack lol

 

Same as it goes around City streets. Very slowly.

 

We are in agreement on LTR not really influencing leasees.

Just 2 things to wait and watch. There seems to be a rumor thats gained steam that a -500 model is inbound in Nov. Whether its a appearance trim or a power package or both is something.

2nd thing is, would the so-called Lexus enthusiasts and conquest buyers respond if Lexus dropped in a bigger power package?

 

Tragic but true lol

 

OR, you go for the more beautiful car because IMO, the 2021 Lexus IS is one of the most complete designs in the compact sport sedan segment at the moment.

This reviewer goes more in detail on the exterior design of the 2021 IS and he echoes my feelings.

Based on my personal experience with the 2021 and seeing how non-enthusiasts are reacting to the 2021 IS in the flesh, Lexus has a winning design.

Admittedly the powertrain is not class leading but how many S4 and M340i are sold in comparison to A4 and 330i? That fact alone tells me the enthusiast market is a vocal but over-represented segment online.

IS will sell on its design alone to non-enthusiasts and on its ride-handling balance and seamless NA V6 throttle response to discerning driving enthusiasts. Online Hp racers and semi-informed online pundits will of course go for the significantly more expensive M340i and sing its praises endlessly but never actually buy it resulting in hardly any units of this unicorn being seen on real world streets.

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So you’re saying it’s going to outsell the 3 Series and C Class?

 

It won't, but I think it is satisfactory for the major refreshed 3.5IS to "buy time" for Lexus and cruise along in 4th place, until it is supposedly replaced directly by e-TNGA according to Japanese Mag-X - the leaker.

 

I cannot imagine being a development driver at Shimoyama. Every view I see of that track shows little or no run-off area and high guard rails. Does not exactly encourage approaching the limit.

 

Looks can only get you so far. The LC500 had decent sales the first year then fell off a cliff. If ride and handling and seamless NA engines mattered, again refer to LC500 against its competitors. Oh and NA engines and driving experiences arent seamless in Lexuseseses. Their transmissions are dimwitted and FE oriented so you get quite a bit of lag before the transmission responds to your right foot.

 

Well I hope their development drivers can drive slow cars around racetracks.

 

Difference being the LC500 costs about 100K and has zero daily driver or utility value. Also frankly, I think the 2021 IS is far more generically handsome and well-resolved than the LC which is too concept car looking. The IS is pretty that is attainable by middle-class, enthusiasts and commoners alike, LC is pretty that is for 99% of us, something we admire in the showroom.

There was a poll that showed that most 3 series buyers didn't even know what axles,rear or front, were being powered by the engine, so let's not pretend that the 3 series sales (or German car sales for that matter) are driven by true car enthusiasts or that the vast majority of sales aren't 330i or (internationally 318i/320i).

For the pricing and market segment that it is pitched at, the IS350 F-Sport is perfectly fine and more than capable of competing against the 330i/C300/A4s of the world. Its only issue is there is not (as yet) an IS500 F-Sport above it. Perhaps Lexus/Toyota has done its math and concluded it is not economically feasible to sell unicorns like the M340i. Which may explain why Q3 Lexus is out-competing BMW in sales and isn't being fined for fraud like BMW :

https://www.autonews.com/sales/lexus...s-bmw-q3-sales
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...s-figures.html

 

I think you're likely the only person who thinks the IS is better looking than the LC lol. The LC is one of the most beautiful cars ever made, IMO.

As for "zero daily driver" value, again, why? How many people do you drive around on a daily basis? Its likely just you. You could daily drive an LC just fine.

Whether or not they are enthusiasts doesn't matter, what matters is that the bought the car. The 3 Series appealed to them over the IS, and it will continue to do so.

You didnt answer my question about whether you are predicting the IS will then outsell the 3, C and A4? Lexus/Toyota has done their math, what they don't understand is when you are selling luxury products, the math is different. When you don't offer aspirational products and products that get press it hurts the whole brand, and keeps people from buying lesser vehicles in the lineup. Lexus as a brand is deeply diminished from where it was 10 years ago, and while sales of FWD Toyota derived cars may be up, because those cars are cheap and offer a pseudo-luxury vibe, that doesn't mean that the brand is healthy.

Rolex could make a killing selling $500 watches. People would line up around the block to buy them, and their sales would be up...but their brand would be terribly diminished. Eventually as people stop buying their high end watches because they no longer have the same cache, those $500 buyers will fall off too, because they bought the $500 watch to feel like the people buying the $50,000 watch. If Lexus doesnt sell $100,000 cars, eventually nobody will want their $30,000 cars.

BMW and Mercedes are guilty of this dilluting of their brand by chasing the lower end, but at least unlike Lexus they also are still innovating and pushing forward and designing and building great cars for their real luxury customers. I'm shopping for a $120,000 car right now, I couldnt buy a Lexus even if I wanted to. They don't make anything that gives me what I want. At BMW and MB and Audi I have many, many options. I can buy an S Class, high end E Class, GLE, GLS, CLS, 7 Series, 8 Series Grand Coupe, X7, X5, A8, A7, S6, Q8, Q7, SQ8, SQ7 it goes on and on. At Lexus? I can buy a V6 LS.

 

I also heard that about the LC500 but actually experienced it on the current gen ES250 and LS350, which are 8/10 speed autos respectively. The lag and also hunting of gears completely destroy for me any sense of serenity, yet does not add to performance, but give the impression of buzziness and struggle. Most surprising in a brand respected for refinement.