2021 Venza and Sienna
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,465
Likes: 3,989
From: Maryland
Right, and loaded get on it at 65 to try and pass on a highway, or merge into a highway from a 40MPH roll...you can see how this can be a big issue
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,460
Likes: 232
From: CA
8 seconds is painful enough to drive. 9 seconds would be unbearable for me to own in a family car. The V6 Odyssey does 0-60 in mid 6s and the V6 Sienna in high 6s. What a disaster.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,872
Likes: 280
From: NY
I would have the same concerns with the Highlander, its hard to test drive a vehicle loaded down though.
as for low 8 0-60, my Pacifica does it in the low 7s, and like I said it feels notably lethargic when its fully loaded. You just need to have good power to move a vehicle like that around when its loaded up. With people and cargo, you're talking about a mass of 5200 lbs...
as for low 8 0-60, my Pacifica does it in the low 7s, and like I said it feels notably lethargic when its fully loaded. You just need to have good power to move a vehicle like that around when its loaded up. With people and cargo, you're talking about a mass of 5200 lbs...
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,465
Likes: 3,989
From: Maryland
That hasn't been my experience driving underpowered hybrids in the past. Then low end torque helps get you off the line, but at highway speeds passing maneuvers are a different matter.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,872
Likes: 280
From: NY
been waiting for toyota to release the new Sienna so the prices on the outgoing model will finally drop!
crazy to think how long toyota kept the current model going, but i understand not to disturb a good thing if it's selling (e.g. 4runner)!
crazy to think how long toyota kept the current model going, but i understand not to disturb a good thing if it's selling (e.g. 4runner)!
CL Community Team
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,517
Likes: 213
From: San Francisco, CA
I have the current pre facelift Sienna with the 6 cyl in the family. I think it has 268 horsepower and I cant stand driving it. For some reason, I always felt that it was too much power for that van, and the accelerator is super jumpy and hard to control. I just constantly slip the front tires if you accelerator anything more than half throttle at a stop. I think 240 hp is about right for this vehicle.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,465
Likes: 3,989
From: Maryland
I have the current pre facelift Sienna with the 6 cyl in the family. I think it has 268 horsepower and I cant stand driving it. For some reason, I always felt that it was too much power for that van, and the accelerator is super jumpy and hard to control. I just constantly slip the front tires if you accelerator anything more than half throttle at a stop. I think 240 hp is about right for this vehicle.
Remember what gets you moving from a stop is torque, not HP. The low end torque of a hybrid will make that situation worse if anything. Horsepower is what you use when making merge movements and accelerating at speed like we are talking about.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,223
Likes: 265
Its not just those mountain grades, its passing power on the highway, merging power. all of that goes into a feeling of confidence on the road.
Keep in mind on a lot of those smaller mountain roads you have to be able to pass into oncoming traffic too. I just don't see 4-5 people and luggage and all plus a 5,000 lb vehicle feeling confidence inspiring with a 240hp 4cyl hybrid powertrain.
With this being a family vehicle, that scenario is absolutely what its designed for too.
Keep in mind on a lot of those smaller mountain roads you have to be able to pass into oncoming traffic too. I just don't see 4-5 people and luggage and all plus a 5,000 lb vehicle feeling confidence inspiring with a 240hp 4cyl hybrid powertrain.
With this being a family vehicle, that scenario is absolutely what its designed for too.
Both Highlander and Sienna have 20hp extra electric power compared to Rav4, and that is probably what is making the difference when driving it in real life.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,465
Likes: 3,989
From: Maryland
Well, Sienna is around 100lbs lighter than Highlander, and all those reviews of Highlander Hybrid were praising it as if you cant really feel much difference between it and V6... so it will be interesting to see.
Both Highlander and Sienna have 20hp extra electric power compared to Rav4, and that is probably what is making the difference when driving it in real life.
Both Highlander and Sienna have 20hp extra electric power compared to Rav4, and that is probably what is making the difference when driving it in real life.
Just one person in the van I'm sure its fine.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
Regarding hybrids and passing ability, hybrids tend to overperform for their rated horsepower in terms of in gear acceleration ie overtaking /merging /passing ability because of the instant response of the electric motor. I think looking at 30-40,40-50,50-60, 60-70 etc acceleration times will settle all the arguments regarding passing and overtaking ability.
Last edited by natnut; May 21, 2020 at 10:58 PM.
CL Community Team
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,517
Likes: 213
From: San Francisco, CA
There needs to be market differentiation between the Venza and the Lexus RX.
Regarding hybrids and passing ability, hybrids tend to overperform for their rated horsepower in terms of in gear acceleration ie overtaking /merging /passing ability because of the instant response of the electric motor. I think looking at 30-40,40-50,50-60, 60-70 etc acceleration times will settle all the arguments regarding passing and overtaking ability.
Regarding hybrids and passing ability, hybrids tend to overperform for their rated horsepower in terms of in gear acceleration ie overtaking /merging /passing ability because of the instant response of the electric motor. I think looking at 30-40,40-50,50-60, 60-70 etc acceleration times will settle all the arguments regarding passing and overtaking ability.
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,892
Likes: 14
From: Virginia
Specific comments about the Highlander Hybrid's power:
From CNET: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/review...um-awd-review/
From Motor1: https://www.motor1.com/reviews/39131...-drive-review/
Can't wait to give the new Sienna an evaluation drive. Fuel economy gains are potentially impressive. Just don't want to make it a slug.
From CNET: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/review...um-awd-review/
Enabling this SUV to sip fuel like when you take that first, tongue-scalding slurp of piping-hot coffee is a familiar drivetrain. Behind that broad, smiling grille you'll find a two-motor hybrid system built around a 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine. That gasoline-burner is matched to a pair of electric motor-generators that, among other things, function as a continuously variable transmission. Total system output clocks in at 243 horsepower, a more-than-adequate figure, if hardly a thrilling one.It's true, I wish the Highlander Hybrid had a little more giddy-up. That drivetrain is mostly smooth and quiet, though you do know when it's straining. Give this vehicle the spurs and unmistakable four-cylinder thrum becomes apparent. No, it's not obtrusive, especially in Limited and Platinum models, which feature laminated front-window glass for an even quieter cabin, but you can hear that combustion engine churning away at certain times.
The loss of two cylinders, however, leaves the crossover with less grunt from its engine and electric motors. With a total of 243 horses, the Highlander Hybrid is down 63 ponies to last year’s model. Predictably, the three-row Toyota hybrid accelerates with less authority. Although the powertrain offers enough gumption to putter the crossover around the low-speed roads of Gruene, Texas at a reasonable pace, the gas engine and electric motors struggle to move the Highlander Hybrid’s more than 4,300 pounds of mass when passing slower moving traffic on the highways that lead to San Antonio, Texas. And that’s with a near-empty cabin. Add in passengers or cargo – or take advantage of the crossover’s 3,500-pound towing capacity – and the Highlander Hybrid is sure to struggle even more.
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
Having previously owned an RX450h Awd for 8 years, I cannot say that I was ever able to feel the "instant" torque that hybrids were always touted for. Granted, that car was heavy, but it still had 298 horsepower. That car never felt fast to me at any speed. It was decent as a family hauler, but I was never impressed. I think the RXh was around 4500 pounds too, just like the Sienna.