Wandl

A friend of mine was shopping for a vehicle, I helped him narrow it down between an 18 Camry & 18 Accord based on his needs (good gas mileage, safety tech like adaptive cruise, reliability). He shows up Monday proud of his new 18 Altima, bought it because he got $7k off (compared to $3k off Camry or $2k off Accord).

Not a Nissan hater but it is a glorified fleet car with horrid resale values on the cusp of a refresh in 2019. My sentiments on why (at least US) consumers get lulled into buying crap cars are:
- Advertising on credit (get approved if you make $400/week....on a new Mitsubishi)
- Advertising on "why buy used when can get new) for a sub-$10k Mitsubishi Mirage
- Selling features vs quality, a key reason why the Dodge Journey sells like hotcakes, it is "the cheapest 3 row seat SUV", ignoring the fact it has an anemic 4 cylinder with a 4 speed automatic
- Brandmonger, because "as long as it is a Jeep...with the same crap 2.4L Tigershark 4-cyl that underpowers the Journey means my Compass is as awesome as a Wrangler + it is Trail rated!"

Well built cars like the 18 Accord sits on dealer lots because most of America keep on making bad decisions and getting ripped off. All this to say, while many consumers (like some of us on these forums) do our due diligence to stretch the dollars we earn, most of America ignore facts, available research and recommendations to buy regrets they trade later. The inability for many buyers to do something as simple as getting pre-qualified means inferior cars will still be commercial successes.

/rantover

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Stroock639

well idk if you're including leasing in this, but i know many people just want whats cheapest and figure i'll only have it a few years and it's all under warranty. in this case at least, a nissan rogue was much less to lease than a rav4, and many people just want something as a "station car" with awd. no matter how many different independent surveys and 3rd party tests i'd show of why toyota in general is just far superior to nissan, it didn't matter to them since it was just a station car. and like you said, people getting a bigger percent off of msrp makes them believe they got a better deal. however that's mostly down to bigger mark up in the car, and chrysler dealers get programs where the manufacturer will sell them the cars for less after a certain sales quota is met. toyota has no such program, all dealers have to pay the same for a car. my manager called it a "stair step program" or something like that.

you also make a good point about features vs quality, since on paper dodge and chryslers often look better but every one i've driven is just not very nice and they fall apart after a few years. an 8 year old dodge avenger is one of the worst things i've ever driven, a 30 year old camry with more than double the miles drove much better. chrysler engines also just aren't good in my experience. they make a fair bit of noise, none of which is any noise you'd really like to hear, and they have pathetic torque. anemic is a good word for it. the 3.6 pentastar has some decent pull up top but how often is a grand caravan driver reaching 5000 rpm. unfortunately fewer and fewer people i feel actually care about how nice the car itself is to use, and are more interested in what it can do.

coolsaber

And the accord and camry arent glorified fleet cars? I think it came purely to price. If I can save money and get essentially the same product, thats one more $ i can put towards other expenses. Economy cars are about value/$ moreso then other tiers.

Fizzboy7

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an Altima. It is a decent car that serves the public very well. Not everyone is a car enthusiast, not everyone cares about having the "best" car, and not everyone has the budget to pay for the best ones. There is no reason to feel bad for your friend. In fact, you should congratulate him/her. An Altima is trustworthy and comfortable transportation, at a very affordable price. That is smart shopping. Also keep in mind an all-new model is just around the corner and discounts are abnormal right now. Same can happen with the Camry/Accord when they are about to be redone.

Well built Accords sit on lots because dealers and the manufacturer are being greedy. This has been an on-going problem with arrogant Honda, which once could demand a higher margin when companies like Hyundai and Kia did not exist. There is massive competition today, and people in this segment expect deals. Also, people don't like frumpy and feminine hatchback styling on their mid-sized sedans. The new Accord has disgraceful looks and crooked tailpipes that were attached by a drunken sailor.

I think we need to start a thread on, "Not everyone is a car enthusiast," which can touch on a million topics that answer why we exist here and why 99% of the rest of society carries on unscathed with ever-day cars.

Stroock639

well there's definitely something wrong with the altima but i totally agree it's perfectly adequate for the vast majority of shoppers. and yes i remember toyota had crazy cash incentives and very long 0% financing terms when the 2017 camry was being phased out.

Aron9000

Altimas from the 2000's/early 00's come with a self destructing transmission that fails before 100k miles and is 4k to replace at the dealer. Brother in law had a 2008ish Nissan Frontier Crew Cab V6, 2wd, sport package, really nice truck. Bought it with 80k miles, sold it with a shade over 100k about 2 years later, in that time it had the heat go out, the a/c go out, the infamous radiator that allows the engine coolant and automatic transmission fluid to mix, thus requiring a radiator replacement along with a transmission replacement. He just barely missed the mileage marker for a full free transmission and radiator replacement that was mandated by a class action lawsuit filed against Nissan.

So he was out of like $2000 because his truck had like 10k more miles on it than what was required for a free repair per the lawsuit. Total bull**** from a company that once built very reliable and well screwed together cars. Ever since Renault bailed them out in the 2000's, their quality and engineering has sucked ***.

Nissan is on my list along with BMW, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, Land Rover, Jaguar, Fiat, and Tesla on brand new cars that suck *** from a quality/engineering standpoint that you should never buy.

pman6

it's always the price.

and cars are depreciating assets and crappy investments. So you'd be stupid to spend too much on a wheeled appliance.

and for most people, $7000 has better value elsewhere.... like in a savings account.
and some people, like I do, drive cars into the ground, so we get the steepest discounts and don't care about resale.

and how do you know the honda is better? Those tiny new turbo engines could explode one day. What's their track record?

Toys4RJill

This a poorly thought out rant. $4000 difference between a Camry and $5000 difference between the Accord is a great deal and a smart decision. Not everyone cares about the car they are driving. One of the dumbest things someone can do is spend too much on their car. Spending lots of money on a luxury car is probably the worst....But they are fun to own.

Toys4RJill

Completely agree. Just as bad is leasing a car vs buying it. As long as one knows that cars are depreciating assets and not investments at all, then do whatever one wants to do.

Johnhav430

In the general pecking order I would say Toyota and Honda are above Nissan, but would a Nissan Altima really be considered inferior? It's kind of hilarious to think that marginal benefit doesn't need to be greater than marginal return. It doesn't really at the high end, but is more important at the low end. Altima/Camry/Accord is not really the low end anyway. Maybe it goes Accord > Camry > Altima, or Accord > Altima = Camry, but at any rate, did the OP ever consider simply asking their friend why he/she chose the Altima?

Johnhav430

I've liked cars since I was little, used to collect all the BMW brochures. But part of me says cars and food are not healthy habits. They are, but they are not. If a person has a lot of discretionary income, and they spend a lot, really, all that hurts is what they pass on to heirs and charity when the are gone is less. I think in our parents' generations, they are driven to maximize those amounts. Dunno if it's ego, or what our grandparents did, or what they feel is right. But I know my generation, the majority of folks say I do what I can for my kids, and the rest is up to them. For my parents, no we were not coddled in any way, and there were no certificates for participation, but they had every intention of say paying for our college even when they could not. More sacrifice for kids if you will.

So you are right, as long as you know what you're doing, do what you want. Just be aware, that's all. And remember, facts are facts, and opinions are opinions.

Johnhav430

lol the magazine said my BMW did 0-60 in 4.8. Must have been one heck of a tail wind the day they tested it!

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Toys4RJill

I hear what you are saying. Leasing vs buying is a long winded discussion. If you have loads of money, what honest difference does it make? For me, I do not like to pay interest in any way. Interest here and then interest there starts to add up and paying interest on an item you will never get to keep or one that has restrictions such as mileage does not make sense to me in the long run. Also, locked into a lease does not protect against job loss, and other such catastrophic events that can occur. My goal for me is to own the car. For the common average person buying an average car, the best case scenario is buying IMO.

The big picture for me is that cars are depreciating assets so putting so much of ones income into a new one all the time is not a great financial decision, but with that admission, who cares what ones does...I have changed my tone a bit.