Well not totally impossible. One of my wife's aunts had a major announcement, and it was totally shocking even to her kids. She divorced her husband and now has a g/f. I think she was like 48? So everyone was saying, why not, now is a good time to be herself and plus the kids just finished college. Enjoy the rest of her life. She's a dentist in MD. wth does everything lead back to MD? lol

 

I am starting to wonder if the break even point is 15+ years. Before we met, my wife bought her 2006 ES in cash. She went into the Lexus dealership and said I need a car today. She sat in an IS and a salesperson said sorry, that one is already sold. So she bought the ES at MSRP. Now, of course she overpaid but over the course of 12 yrs and 8 months it has cost an average of $310 to own/drive her car. That includes maintenance, much of it DIY, repairs (new starter) and the value if she sold the ES. It almost seems like she would have been better off leasing every three years and be totally covered under warranty all the time. Now, I didn't figure out what insurance differences may be but I really wonder if it's worth it to hold a car so long. Her ES still drives and rides very well so she can easily drive this thing another 50K miles and it will then really tip the scale in favor of buying over leasing but at that point it would be almost 25 years in the same car and technology from 2006!

Leasing doesn't seem as bad as it used to be to me, even if you can afford to pay in cash. I do realize there was a period where my wife worked far away and put on 20K/year on her ES as opposed to the 5K-6K/year now. For that period, leasing would have been very expensive with the mileage penalty. Still though, I am shocked she's not way more ahead after 12+ years. Even if she overpaid, it amounts to $20/month over time so far. Part of it is probably me always putting on Michelins on her car or making sure I used OEM parts. I experimented with other tire brands that cost half but they lasted half as long, so no net savings. Maybe we should lease her next car if she ever gives up the ES, especially with the speed of tech development in cars. A 3-year-old car now seems way more behind the tech curve than a 3-year-old car from the 90s or 2000s.

 

Recently had the Kia Optima as a rental when we took the kiddo to Legoland. I was duly impressed by the bump isolation and ride quality. I actually wondered internally if this Kia rides better than our LS 460! This was based on the first five minutes of driving and trying to get out of the 5-story maze of rental agencies at the airport. I really was shocked how well the Optima rode, how composed it was over hard speed bumps, and how well it resisted leaning in constant radius turns while exiting the rental garage. I can completely understand how someone would be smitten with the Optima during a brief test-drive and consider it on par, or better, than the new Camry. Alas, the rose-colored glasses faded on the highway and I was assured of the LS's supremacy after more time behind the wheel. After another 30 minutes on the freeway, I started to hate the droning drivetrain, the stiff and noisy turn-signal stalk, the very supportive but hard seats and side bolsters that dug into my sides. The more time I spent in the Kia, the more I wanted out of it. However, I can certainly understand how it can leave a positive first impression if you only drove it 15 minutes and were cross-shopping it against more expensive competitors.

 

I agree that the seats on lower-level Kia products tend to be too firm and hard for my tastes.....that is one of their (IMO) few weaknesses. But I don't see how you found the drivetrain droning on the highway. If you were in the proper high overdrive gear, the transmission was working properly, and the engine was turning over fast enough for you to hear a constant drone, you must have been going pretty fast.

Now, where typical in-line fours DO tend to have more noise than V6s is in slow-to-moderate acceleration at low speeds. You will, under those conditions, find more engine noise....even in an otherwise super-quiet compact like the Buick Verano.

 

We took photos of the Optima to document the "walk around" before accepting the rental and there was no external badging to indicate the level of trim, so I assume it was the base engine. I kept the speed legal (which I usually do anyways out of respect for a police officer that let me out of a ticket in my youth), and especially with precious family riding with me. Re-reading my post, I was too loose with my words. It was stop and go traffic on the freeway in San Diego where I noticed the annoying drone and coarseness of the I4 during acceleration, not as smooth as the Honda I4s that I remember from the 90s. The Optima is spacious and roomy though with a cavernous trunk! It just isn't comfortable for me if I had to drive it longer than 45 minutes or so. It is fine if I was in my early twenties but my priorities are different now.

 

Generally speaking, Honda and Toyota products command a premium over KIA or Hyundai models, I think consumers still see a difference between the brands. I would say the new Stinger is the one exception of that.

 

I completely understand your rant and I feel the same way. But the average consumer aren't into cars like petrol-heads are.
A good example I always use is the 2014 BMW 3 Series and 2014 Lexus IS sales numbers. When the 3G Lexus IS first came out in 2014, it had more tech, better options, newer, and has fresh LFA gauges. And yet - the BMW 3 Series at the time, which was already 2 years old already, with less options sold double of the 2014 Lexus IS. Main reason for this numbers - aggressive lease deals from BMW (tons of stripper 3 Series) and the badge.

Another point: average consumers lack good car knowledge and tend to get pipped by sales people. When the Camry XSE came out, I was excited and wanted to test drive it. The sales person at the dealer was pulling out all sorts of BS cards to sell me the car. Comments from like - "It has 301HP so its fast" (HP don't make it fast - torque does.) He told me it had a quad exhaust system - when I knew it had fake quad exhaust and its really a dual exhaust with 2 fake pipes.
I'll admit - if I wasn't such a car nut, I would have probably been sold from all of his comments.

I mean - if everyone was into cars - there probably won't be any bad cars on the road.

Last point: I honestly think the Honda Accord 2.0 Touring is a much better car than the Camry XSE. Reviews and car folks alike have been saying the same thing. I always believed the Camry XSE V6 just looks fast while the Accord 2.0T Touring is actually fast - especially since you have a choice of a 6spd MT!

 

Hondas and Toyotas list for more than Kia's and Hyundais because they usually cost more to produce...not necessarily because they are better products. Those days are long gone.

 

There are often list of worst cars not to buy. There always I see Fiat 500, Dodge Journey, etc. Wonder if general consumers don't even bother reading the list. Friend of mine traded his old minivan for new
Fiat 500. After 3 months it just died at the mall parking lot. Dealer towed it and fixed it. After 3 months same happened. Then he traded 6 months old Fiat for a new Journey with 4 banger engine. Now there is a rumor Hyundai is considering buying FCA. They had a chance to buy Volvo but they did not but considering about FCA?

 

Perception? Actually union workers at Hyundai plant in Korea is voting on strike action disrupting production. Their wage level is pretty high now. Same is going on in China. As a car company Toyota is much older,
Honda used to build agricultural equipment(small engines) like Sony started as a transistor radio maker after WW II. Kia was originally bicycle maker. Hyundai started as converting surplus military vehicles for civilian use during/after Korean war. Hyundai is in construction, ship building, steel making, marine transportation, real estate development, etc. a big outfit.

 

{OT} reading your signature, are you Japanese origin? I am Korean born and raised in Seoul Korea. My maternal grand mother was a Japanese lady from Sapporo Hokkaido.
She went back home after my grand father was killed by North Korean soldiers during the war. My uncles, her sons, one became MIA and one was wounded during the war.

 

Really they are new kid on the block in a sense. Look at Mercedes which has been sort of leader, pioneer in automotive engineering. They let other competition to use their patented technology for 1.00, literally free. What I heard from MB personnel.

 

Not much. Kia is now #1 on Consumer Reports' Initial-quality list. That bears out what I myself have seen of their recent products. That doesn't mean I like everything about them (note that I do not drive one)...but you cannot beat the way they are screwed together, or the materials they use, especially for the price.

 

Nope. I'm not Japanese.
I'm sorry about your lost regarding your grandfather. Did your family serve in the Korean War? If they did, I want to give you a thank you for their service. Thank you to your family for serving!

 

Hyundai is considering a FCA purchase? Like right now?

Do you know why? Curious..