/RANT: Why do consumers keep on buying inferior vehicles?
07-03-18, 10:11 AM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
It is almost impossible to change some one's life style. Actually it is none of my business. In the case of automobiles(necessary evil in our daily life)
my immediate family and in-laws all ended up owning and keeping German vehicles after trying many different ones throughout working years.
my immediate family and in-laws all ended up owning and keeping German vehicles after trying many different ones throughout working years.
07-03-18, 10:10 PM
#62
Racer
said on a lexus forum.
i used to think that, but no more. Buying a car only makes sense if you plan to keep it 5+ years and then it only makes sense for someone who is ok driving old cars. I don't like driving old cars. To me, new cars are better in every way. Safer, faster, more features, more useful, more variations.
Leasing doesn't seem as bad as it used to be to me, even if you can afford to pay in cash. I do realize there was a period where my wife worked far away and put on 20K/year on her ES as opposed to the 5K-6K/year now. For that period, leasing would have been very expensive with the mileage penalty. Still though, I am shocked she's not way more ahead after 12+ years. Even if she overpaid, it amounts to $20/month over time so far. Part of it is probably me always putting on Michelins on her car or making sure I used OEM parts. I experimented with other tire brands that cost half but they lasted half as long, so no net savings. Maybe we should lease her next car if she ever gives up the ES, especially with the speed of tech development in cars. A 3-year-old car now seems way more behind the tech curve than a 3-year-old car from the 90s or 2000s.
07-03-18, 10:26 PM
#63
Racer
There is nothing wrong with buying an Altima. It's as good or better than (current) Camrys or Accords in some ways. This long-held idea that Camrys and Accords rule, on the quality front, is years out of date now. Like it or not, much of the competition, particularly the Kia Optima, has caught up.
07-04-18, 06:24 AM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Recently had the Kia Optima as a rental when we took the kiddo to Legoland. I was duly impressed by the bump isolation and ride quality. I actually wondered internally if this Kia rides better than our LS 460! This was based on the first five minutes of driving and trying to get out of the 5-story maze of rental agencies at the airport. I really was shocked how well the Optima rode, how composed it was over hard speed bumps, and how well it resisted leaning in constant radius turns while exiting the rental garage. I can completely understand how someone would be smitten with the Optima during a brief test-drive and consider it on par, or better, than the new Camry. Alas, the rose-colored glasses faded on the highway and I was assured of the LS's supremacy after more time behind the wheel. After another 30 minutes on the freeway, I started to hate the droning drivetrain, the stiff and noisy turn-signal stalk, the very supportive but hard seats and side bolsters that dug into my sides. The more time I spent in the Kia, the more I wanted out of it. However, I can certainly understand how it can leave a positive first impression if you only drove it 15 minutes and were cross-shopping it against more expensive competitors.
I agree that the seats on lower-level Kia products tend to be too firm and hard for my tastes.....that is one of their (IMO) few weaknesses. But I don't see how you found the drivetrain droning on the highway. If you were in the proper high overdrive gear, the transmission was working properly, and the engine was turning over fast enough for you to hear a constant drone, you must have been going pretty fast.
Now, where typical in-line fours DO tend to have more noise than V6s is in slow-to-moderate acceleration at low speeds. You will, under those conditions, find more engine noise....even in an otherwise super-quiet compact like the Buick Verano.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-04-18 at 06:27 AM.
07-04-18, 08:23 AM
#65
Racer
I agree that the seats on lower-level Kia products tend to be too firm and hard for my tastes.....that is one of their (IMO) few weaknesses. But I don't see how you found the drivetrain droning on the highway. If you were in the proper high overdrive gear, the transmission was working properly, and the engine was turning over fast enough for you to hear a constant drone, you must have been going pretty fast.
Now, where typical in-line fours DO tend to have more noise than V6s is in slow-to-moderate acceleration at low speeds. You will, under those conditions, find more engine noise....even in an otherwise super-quiet compact like the Buick Verano.
Now, where typical in-line fours DO tend to have more noise than V6s is in slow-to-moderate acceleration at low speeds. You will, under those conditions, find more engine noise....even in an otherwise super-quiet compact like the Buick Verano.
07-04-18, 09:01 AM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
I noticed the annoying drone and coarseness of the I4 during acceleration, not as smooth as the Honda I4s that I remember from the 90s. The Optima is spacious and roomy though with a cavernous trunk! It just isn't comfortable for me if I had to drive it longer than 45 minutes or so. It is fine if I was in my early twenties but my priorities are different now.
07-04-18, 04:20 PM
#67
Lexus Test Driver
A friend of mine was shopping for a vehicle, I helped him narrow it down between an 18 Camry & 18 Accord based on his needs (good gas mileage, safety tech like adaptive cruise, reliability). He shows up Monday proud of his new 18 Altima, bought it because he got $7k off (compared to $3k off Camry or $2k off Accord).
Not a Nissan hater but it is a glorified fleet car with horrid resale values on the cusp of a refresh in 2019. My sentiments on why (at least US) consumers get lulled into buying crap cars are:
- Advertising on credit (get approved if you make $400/week....on a new Mitsubishi)
- Advertising on "why buy used when can get new) for a sub-$10k Mitsubishi Mirage
- Selling features vs quality, a key reason why the Dodge Journey sells like hotcakes, it is "the cheapest 3 row seat SUV", ignoring the fact it has an anemic 4 cylinder with a 4 speed automatic
- Brandmonger, because "as long as it is a Jeep...with the same crap 2.4L Tigershark 4-cyl that underpowers the Journey means my Compass is as awesome as a Wrangler + it is Trail rated!"
Well built cars like the 18 Accord sits on dealer lots because most of America keep on making bad decisions and getting ripped off. All this to say, while many consumers (like some of us on these forums) do our due diligence to stretch the dollars we earn, most of America ignore facts, available research and recommendations to buy regrets they trade later. The inability for many buyers to do something as simple as getting pre-qualified means inferior cars will still be commercial successes.
/rantover
Not a Nissan hater but it is a glorified fleet car with horrid resale values on the cusp of a refresh in 2019. My sentiments on why (at least US) consumers get lulled into buying crap cars are:
- Advertising on credit (get approved if you make $400/week....on a new Mitsubishi)
- Advertising on "why buy used when can get new) for a sub-$10k Mitsubishi Mirage
- Selling features vs quality, a key reason why the Dodge Journey sells like hotcakes, it is "the cheapest 3 row seat SUV", ignoring the fact it has an anemic 4 cylinder with a 4 speed automatic
- Brandmonger, because "as long as it is a Jeep...with the same crap 2.4L Tigershark 4-cyl that underpowers the Journey means my Compass is as awesome as a Wrangler + it is Trail rated!"
Well built cars like the 18 Accord sits on dealer lots because most of America keep on making bad decisions and getting ripped off. All this to say, while many consumers (like some of us on these forums) do our due diligence to stretch the dollars we earn, most of America ignore facts, available research and recommendations to buy regrets they trade later. The inability for many buyers to do something as simple as getting pre-qualified means inferior cars will still be commercial successes.
/rantover
A good example I always use is the 2014 BMW 3 Series and 2014 Lexus IS sales numbers. When the 3G Lexus IS first came out in 2014, it had more tech, better options, newer, and has fresh LFA gauges. And yet - the BMW 3 Series at the time, which was already 2 years old already, with less options sold double of the 2014 Lexus IS. Main reason for this numbers - aggressive lease deals from BMW (tons of stripper 3 Series) and the badge.
Another point: average consumers lack good car knowledge and tend to get pipped by sales people. When the Camry XSE came out, I was excited and wanted to test drive it. The sales person at the dealer was pulling out all sorts of BS cards to sell me the car. Comments from like - "It has 301HP so its fast" (HP don't make it fast - torque does.) He told me it had a quad exhaust system - when I knew it had fake quad exhaust and its really a dual exhaust with 2 fake pipes.
I'll admit - if I wasn't such a car nut, I would have probably been sold from all of his comments.
I mean - if everyone was into cars - there probably won't be any bad cars on the road.
Last point: I honestly think the Honda Accord 2.0 Touring is a much better car than the Camry XSE. Reviews and car folks alike have been saying the same thing. I always believed the Camry XSE V6 just looks fast while the Accord 2.0T Touring is actually fast - especially since you have a choice of a 6spd MT!
07-04-18, 04:36 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
07-04-18, 05:17 PM
#69
Lexus Champion
Consumers are quite fascinating. They like lists, numbers, something by which they can measure overall goodness in one shot. Horsepower is one of those goodness numbers.
I could have sworn it was here, that recently the 10 worst cars for depreciation were listed. When I saw the list one thing that occurred to me is that these are cars that routinely have inflated list prices.
If a car lists for $50k, but everybody who has a pulse drives off with it for $37k, is that really bad depreciation, when 4 yrs. later the vehicle has a wholesale value of $25k? Are we basing the rate on $50k, or $37k?
Maybe GM has it right: Give people a choice--good, better, best, I think that's a joke, but maybe consumers want their decisions to be that simple.
I could have sworn it was here, that recently the 10 worst cars for depreciation were listed. When I saw the list one thing that occurred to me is that these are cars that routinely have inflated list prices.
If a car lists for $50k, but everybody who has a pulse drives off with it for $37k, is that really bad depreciation, when 4 yrs. later the vehicle has a wholesale value of $25k? Are we basing the rate on $50k, or $37k?
Maybe GM has it right: Give people a choice--good, better, best, I think that's a joke, but maybe consumers want their decisions to be that simple.
Fiat 500. After 3 months it just died at the mall parking lot. Dealer towed it and fixed it. After 3 months same happened. Then he traded 6 months old Fiat for a new Journey with 4 banger engine. Now there is a rumor Hyundai is considering buying FCA. They had a chance to buy Volvo but they did not but considering about FCA?
07-04-18, 05:31 PM
#70
Lexus Champion
Honda used to build agricultural equipment(small engines) like Sony started as a transistor radio maker after WW II. Kia was originally bicycle maker. Hyundai started as converting surplus military vehicles for civilian use during/after Korean war. Hyundai is in construction, ship building, steel making, marine transportation, real estate development, etc. a big outfit.
07-04-18, 05:43 PM
#71
Lexus Champion
She went back home after my grand father was killed by North Korean soldiers during the war. My uncles, her sons, one became MIA and one was wounded during the war.
07-04-18, 09:17 PM
#72
Lexus Champion
Really they are new kid on the block in a sense. Look at Mercedes which has been sort of leader, pioneer in automotive engineering. They let other competition to use their patented technology for 1.00, literally free. What I heard from MB personnel.
07-04-18, 09:22 PM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
Not much. Kia is now #1 on Consumer Reports' Initial-quality list. That bears out what I myself have seen of their recent products. That doesn't mean I like everything about them (note that I do not drive one)...but you cannot beat the way they are screwed together, or the materials they use, especially for the price.
07-05-18, 12:22 AM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
{OT} reading your signature, are you Japanese origin? I am Korean born and raised in Seoul Korea. My maternal grand mother was a Japanese lady from Sapporo Hokkaido.
She went back home after my grand father was killed by North Korean soldiers during the war. My uncles, her sons, one became MIA and one was wounded during the war.
She went back home after my grand father was killed by North Korean soldiers during the war. My uncles, her sons, one became MIA and one was wounded during the war.
I'm sorry about your lost regarding your grandfather. Did your family serve in the Korean War? If they did, I want to give you a thank you for their service. Thank you to your family for serving!
07-05-18, 12:24 AM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
There are often list of worst cars not to buy. There always I see Fiat 500, Dodge Journey, etc. Wonder if general consumers don't even bother reading the list. Friend of mine traded his old minivan for new
Fiat 500. After 3 months it just died at the mall parking lot. Dealer towed it and fixed it. After 3 months same happened. Then he traded 6 months old Fiat for a new Journey with 4 banger engine. Now there is a rumor Hyundai is considering buying FCA. They had a chance to buy Volvo but they did not but considering about FCA?
Fiat 500. After 3 months it just died at the mall parking lot. Dealer towed it and fixed it. After 3 months same happened. Then he traded 6 months old Fiat for a new Journey with 4 banger engine. Now there is a rumor Hyundai is considering buying FCA. They had a chance to buy Volvo but they did not but considering about FCA?
Do you know why? Curious..