2019 BMW 8-Series
06-23-18, 01:19 AM
#61
Damn you @pman6, I cannot unsee lol!!!
new 8-Series is nice, but underwhelming. What are they going to do with the 6-Series now? Abandon the name? Will it still be a separate model? Convertible and Gean Coupe models are still under the moniker but the coupe is discontinued.
new 8-Series is nice, but underwhelming. What are they going to do with the 6-Series now? Abandon the name? Will it still be a separate model? Convertible and Gean Coupe models are still under the moniker but the coupe is discontinued.
06-23-18, 03:18 AM
#62
Pole Position
If one truly likes his car wait until it is three years old and buy it 52% less than new. Someone posted an article about the top ten cars that depreciate the most after three years. The five series was #1 at 52%. Most on the list were BMW's and Mercedes's. The only problem with this strategy is it is only under warranty for only one more year and than you have to deal with their low dependability and high maintenance cost. Love our Lexus's!!!
06-23-18, 05:17 AM
#64
06-23-18, 10:46 AM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
10-26-18, 10:33 AM
#68
2019 BMW M850i xDrive First Drive Review | Daddy shark
ESTORIL, Portugal — It's been nearly two decades since the BMW 8-Series filled driveways with its grandiosity and elegantly oversized persona. The top-dog 850 CSi was a two-ton cruiser motivated by a naturally-aspirated 5.6-liter V12 that churned a then-remarkable 380 horsepower. Wow, how the world of performance cars has evolved.
Flash forward to present day, and the new 2019 BMW M850i xDrive offers a future-forward translation of the shark-nosed 2+2 from yesteryear, but little else carries over. Sure, it's still got a curb weight in excess of two tons (4,478 pounds, to be precise), but it also benefits from a considerably stiffer chassis and the thrust of a twin-turbo 4.4-liter producing 523 horsepower and a wheel-spinning 553 lb-ft of torque. Those 20-inch hoops are less likely to slide due to BMW's standard xDrive all-wheel drive system.
I've traveled to the 2.6-mile Autódromo do Estoril near the west coast of Portugal to track test the new BMW 8 Series, which initially might seem a mismatch to the circuit's tight esses and bends. Decked out in a generally harmonious blend of graceful lines and aggressive bits (including some disappointingly non-functional vents and ducts), the new 8 Series, at least in non-M form, appears to lean more towards luxe than lightweight. Though the $124,500 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Coupe takes the cake for lavish interiors, the $111,900 BMW counters with a more austere, modern overall treatment that still sports some cushy bits, like the Merino leather seats and generous swaths of cowhide across the dashboard and door panels.
Flash forward to present day, and the new 2019 BMW M850i xDrive offers a future-forward translation of the shark-nosed 2+2 from yesteryear, but little else carries over. Sure, it's still got a curb weight in excess of two tons (4,478 pounds, to be precise), but it also benefits from a considerably stiffer chassis and the thrust of a twin-turbo 4.4-liter producing 523 horsepower and a wheel-spinning 553 lb-ft of torque. Those 20-inch hoops are less likely to slide due to BMW's standard xDrive all-wheel drive system.
I've traveled to the 2.6-mile Autódromo do Estoril near the west coast of Portugal to track test the new BMW 8 Series, which initially might seem a mismatch to the circuit's tight esses and bends. Decked out in a generally harmonious blend of graceful lines and aggressive bits (including some disappointingly non-functional vents and ducts), the new 8 Series, at least in non-M form, appears to lean more towards luxe than lightweight. Though the $124,500 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Coupe takes the cake for lavish interiors, the $111,900 BMW counters with a more austere, modern overall treatment that still sports some cushy bits, like the Merino leather seats and generous swaths of cowhide across the dashboard and door panels.
In other words, the Mercedes is more lavish, but this BMW features a more functional aesthetic and a more focused sense of performance. The M850i was developed alongside BMW's M8 GTE race car; though the street car can't compete with its track counterpart's wispy 2,689-pound curb weight, it does manage an eye-opening 0-to-60 mph acceleration time of 3.6 seconds. That sprint bests Benz's S 560 4MATIC's time of 4.5 seconds, and feels rather feisty as it launches onto Estoril's freshly repaved surface.
The 8's rear-steering system is a bit perceptible during sharp turn-ins below 45 mph, when it countersteers to aid maneuverability. But that's not necessarily a bad thing because it manages to change direction better than any two-ton-plus car has any right to. There's lots of grip from the 245 mm front/275 mm rear Bridgestone rubber, and though the 8's weight is perceptible on the track, once you get over the initial shift in mass it manages to find enough sure-footedness to hang on to corners rather tenaciously.
Much of this stability comes from a concert of aids including a rear electronic differential, electronic roll stabilization, and individually applied brake intervention. Aiding corner exit is BMW's all-wheel drive system, which essentially works as a rear-drive configuration that only applies power to the front wheels when necessary. The resulting distribution lends the 8 Series a balanced, hunkered down feeling in corners that avoids understeer-prone tendencies of most all-wheel-drive setups.
Sure, it's ponderousness compared to significantly smaller, lighter cars like the Z4 I drove earlier in the day, but the M850i's chassis solidity and composure encouraged elevated speeds — which I savored while chasing BMW Works driver Nicky Catsburg, who was piloting an M5 Competition as a pace car. The M Sport package (differentiated by blue calipers) comes equipped with cast aluminum wheels and four-piston front, single-piston rear steel rotors that provide plenty of stopping power. On track, however, brake pedal feel was suboptimal. Expect carbon ceramic brakes when the M8 bows next spring.
Driving on public roads, where the vast majority of 8 Series will undoubtedly spend the entirety of their time, reveals a composed, purposeful ride and a sporting spirit that prevails over the ultra-cushy isolationism of the S-ClassCoupe. The 8's center stack is dominated by a 10.25-inch touchscreen that features customizable layouts. The system is managed by an iDrive controller that plays well with its new haptic controls. Though there's a mild learning curve when it comes to finding functions and maneuvering through menus, the system is easy to master after some acclimatization.
The 8's rear-steering system is a bit perceptible during sharp turn-ins below 45 mph, when it countersteers to aid maneuverability. But that's not necessarily a bad thing because it manages to change direction better than any two-ton-plus car has any right to. There's lots of grip from the 245 mm front/275 mm rear Bridgestone rubber, and though the 8's weight is perceptible on the track, once you get over the initial shift in mass it manages to find enough sure-footedness to hang on to corners rather tenaciously.
Much of this stability comes from a concert of aids including a rear electronic differential, electronic roll stabilization, and individually applied brake intervention. Aiding corner exit is BMW's all-wheel drive system, which essentially works as a rear-drive configuration that only applies power to the front wheels when necessary. The resulting distribution lends the 8 Series a balanced, hunkered down feeling in corners that avoids understeer-prone tendencies of most all-wheel-drive setups.
Sure, it's ponderousness compared to significantly smaller, lighter cars like the Z4 I drove earlier in the day, but the M850i's chassis solidity and composure encouraged elevated speeds — which I savored while chasing BMW Works driver Nicky Catsburg, who was piloting an M5 Competition as a pace car. The M Sport package (differentiated by blue calipers) comes equipped with cast aluminum wheels and four-piston front, single-piston rear steel rotors that provide plenty of stopping power. On track, however, brake pedal feel was suboptimal. Expect carbon ceramic brakes when the M8 bows next spring.
Driving on public roads, where the vast majority of 8 Series will undoubtedly spend the entirety of their time, reveals a composed, purposeful ride and a sporting spirit that prevails over the ultra-cushy isolationism of the S-ClassCoupe. The 8's center stack is dominated by a 10.25-inch touchscreen that features customizable layouts. The system is managed by an iDrive controller that plays well with its new haptic controls. Though there's a mild learning curve when it comes to finding functions and maneuvering through menus, the system is easy to master after some acclimatization.
Less successful, in my view, is the execution of the 12.3-inch instrument cluster display. Though the layout changes slightly based on driving mode, the general setup isn't as easily readable as it should be, with digitally rendered speedometer and tachometer images pushed to the edge while the center offers navigation or multimedia information. The latest generation of Audi's Virtual Cockpit system is a more efficient and intuitive way to toggle between clear navigation imagery and easy to read speedo/tach renditions.
Though I didn't have the opportunity to test it on the forest-lined roads where I piloted the 8 Series, the optional Driving Assistant Professional package offers a lane-keeping assistance system that works in conjunction with adaptive cruise control, which BMW says can be operated at speeds up to 130 mph, and which will resume operation from a standstill in traffic after being stationary for as long as 30 seconds. As for the rear-seating situation, there's not a lot of space for full-size adults, though kids should be able to manage back there while being shuttled to and from their after-school activities.
While it's tempting to contextualize the new 8 Series against its starkly different predecessors, more interesting is how neatly it finds its niche within this tiny but pricey segment. If you crave ultimate comfort and vault-like isolation, Mercedes-Benz's S 560 is the likelier choice, while the amped-up AMG S 63 ($167,700) or swooshy AMG S 65($238,900) add bite while retaining a prevailing sense of luxury over track-ready tossability. While we're escalating the scope of our übercoupe comparison, it's safe to say the cost-is-no-object drivers will draw to the Bentley Continental GT ($214,600). And the Maserati GranTurismo ($134,300) might attract the less rational, more emotionally motivated crowd.
The BMW 8 Series' win lies in its focus on performance, which will become even more pronounced when the M8 version hits showrooms next year. With the thin competition in this rarified segment rounding out the spectrum of sportiness versus luxury, the M850i finally revives BMW's tradition of adhering to its goals of building so-called ultimate driving machines. It may not be a race car wrapped in road car clothes, but the 8 Series edges a lot closer to satisfying both drivers and boulevard cruisers.
Though I didn't have the opportunity to test it on the forest-lined roads where I piloted the 8 Series, the optional Driving Assistant Professional package offers a lane-keeping assistance system that works in conjunction with adaptive cruise control, which BMW says can be operated at speeds up to 130 mph, and which will resume operation from a standstill in traffic after being stationary for as long as 30 seconds. As for the rear-seating situation, there's not a lot of space for full-size adults, though kids should be able to manage back there while being shuttled to and from their after-school activities.
While it's tempting to contextualize the new 8 Series against its starkly different predecessors, more interesting is how neatly it finds its niche within this tiny but pricey segment. If you crave ultimate comfort and vault-like isolation, Mercedes-Benz's S 560 is the likelier choice, while the amped-up AMG S 63 ($167,700) or swooshy AMG S 65($238,900) add bite while retaining a prevailing sense of luxury over track-ready tossability. While we're escalating the scope of our übercoupe comparison, it's safe to say the cost-is-no-object drivers will draw to the Bentley Continental GT ($214,600). And the Maserati GranTurismo ($134,300) might attract the less rational, more emotionally motivated crowd.
The BMW 8 Series' win lies in its focus on performance, which will become even more pronounced when the M8 version hits showrooms next year. With the thin competition in this rarified segment rounding out the spectrum of sportiness versus luxury, the M850i finally revives BMW's tradition of adhering to its goals of building so-called ultimate driving machines. It may not be a race car wrapped in road car clothes, but the 8 Series edges a lot closer to satisfying both drivers and boulevard cruisers.
11-02-18, 01:42 PM
#70
Yeah, but BMW knew what they were doing. Giving you an advanced look at the car, without giving it all away too early and creating hype against the Lexus LC. The car above did NOT influence the production G15 below. So nothing was lost in translation. Save for the LF-LC and LC, that just isn't how cars are developed generally. There's no time for that, to be basing your styling programs on concept cars. Luxury firms spend 2 years to develop a new design fro, scratch, then more several months to fine tune for sign-off.
Only the i8 was developed off of a concept car from 2009 called BMW VED and took 5 years to reach showrooms. The exterior styling 1:1 model proposed for the G15 "6-Series" in 2015 did not look like the photo above at all, it was a beta form of the final car in the photo below and not even that different.
In 2015, this exact car was the G15 6-Series coupe in design proposal guise and referred to as such. As prototypes started being built in 2016, this became the 8-Series in name only and partly why there is no V12. It is plainly a marketing grab to price it higher and have the most decadent profit margin known to man.
My mother will be getting one for her birthday late next month, in being a BMW fanatic and daughter of a former BMW importer 40 years back to test out. And then likely swap it out for a M850i cabrio next year to replace her Texas kept (aging) E64 2009 650i and later M8 GC to replace her F06 M6 at Birmingham, UK area home (that I house-sit). Always gets to see new BMW models before the general public, which a few times I have been invited with her.
Oddly enough though, I did have to tell her, that the new 8-Series is plainly marketing wool and is not the same car introduced when she was in her 30s nearly 3 decades ago. She doesn't care, even despite the fact it doesn't have the V12 in her MY17 M760i. The only non-V12 7-Series she owned was her first, a last MY E38 740iL (V8) in 2000. From the E66.5 LCi to current G12, nearly every other 7-Series of hers (6 in counting) has been a 12, other than the 2016 740i she was surprised with in 2015 and then got rid 1 year later for the M760i. Her loyalty to BMW is second to none.
BMW is set to make big money on this, if more people fall for the 8-Series badge with 6-Series execution. Dr. Wolfgang Reitzle set out in 1981, to create the perfect flagship coupe and spent 8 years doing that, resulting in the 1990 original 850i V12 and planned M8 V12. He was the magic behind BMW of the late 1980s and 1990s, not to mention parts of the early 2000s, due to trickle down effect.
He left BMW after 2 decades in early 1999 following being denied CEO job and gave JLR legs, which are still relied on to date. He wanted to even transform Lincoln in a world class brand, but left because of Ford going very conservative with PAG budgets following Firestone losses and Jacques Nasser debacle.
Regarding the S550 Mustang, a design I liked very much pre-facelift, the designer responsible for it Kemal Curic, did his Mustang sketching entirely in Cologne, Germany from 2009 to December 2010, when he won the newly global Mustang internal design competition and then moved to Dearborn, Michigan by January 2011. (He moved to Lincoln Design after GT350)
Exactly one year later, the final exterior design was approved and then frozen belatedly 11 months later (minor hiccups) by early December 2012. There are many elements borrowed from BMW and Aston Martin on the Mustang, not to mention Porsche and Jaguar (nowadays). It is no surprise the similarities, when both were trying to emulate Aston Martin and Ford as well. The 4-Series wasn't public until end of 2012 and 2013, but still visible during 2011 and 2012.
That is an absurd comparison, when Lexus took nearly 5.5 years to put their own model into production. You're blindly assuming BMW approached development on this, the same way Lexus did and then chose to "water it down" the concept. The only thing BMW did was water down the 8-Series nameplate with a dolled up 6-Series, compared to the original range-topper of 1990. Otherwise, design has nothing to do with it.
The only reason that concept was shown, was to reintroduce the nameplate and get the public to accept the new 6-Series under the 8-Series label by trotting out a hot looking show version, plus give an advance look at it 18 months before launch.
What many people wrongly assume, is (likely) that these concepts are shown to provide serious feedback and then supposedly influence internal design work from there. In REALITY, at most if reception is very poor, they can either cancel an incoming model or DELAY it significantly to make requisite changes.
For BMW to have shown this concept back in May 2017 and then do what Lexus did with the LC, the G15 wouldn't have arrived until 2022 at earliest. Simply, you cannot alter a finalized design, when you are only 18 months out from market launch.
Production already began in July 2018, which was over 3 years after basic design approval was made in the first half of 2015. Design freeze was in late 2015. Comparatively Lexus had the luxury of developing the LF-LC concept first and then greenlighting a development from scratch afterward. BMW did that once with the i8 and took just as long as Lexus.
People need to be more realistic and stop listening to a select amount of ignorant auto bloggers and "journalists" that seemingly throw out these contradictory and opinionated theories on what "concept cars" truly represent in the industry and their overall intent. Just because a concept is shown PUBLICLY first, doesn't mean it was DEVELOPED first.
Some concepts will be design studies, an amalgamation of future design cues on production vehicles in the pipeline or plain styling exercise to gauge if a model should be developed or to keep design employees busy during product development lulls (see Infiniti).
Most concepts are the upcoming model itself, designed with less regulatory limitations, to garner hype or serve as a teaser. Personally I find it annoying how people feel every concept serves the same intent, which is not true if that concept shows up during prototype testing and NOT before that phase of development, let alone the whole model program.
The new "Supra" can be accused of being watered-down from the FT-1, but certainly not this.
BMW did however, pull a bait and switch. From 2013 to 2015, they designed the G15 coupe exterior (named 6-Series) and then decided in 2016, to rename it up a level and make a fancier concept to preview it, knowing VERY well the finalized real deal was more underwhelming and simply got people's hopes up. They did not decide to "fix" the 8-Series Concept and water it down, when that was developed well after after production styling.
What I ask is people be more discerning between concept cars and try to understand their intent. Not just assume the shoe fits for every concept. Some concepts will be like the precursors to the i8, LC 500, or A90 Supra, while others will be more like the LF-Ch/CT, Lexus SLV and HPS, of yore, and this 8-Series. And then that of design studies such as LF-SA, that has no production model yet (not until Yaris GA-B platform) and 2013 BMW Pininfarina Gran Lusso.
Only the i8 was developed off of a concept car from 2009 called BMW VED and took 5 years to reach showrooms. The exterior styling 1:1 model proposed for the G15 "6-Series" in 2015 did not look like the photo above at all, it was a beta form of the final car in the photo below and not even that different.
Damn you @pman6, I cannot unsee lol!!!
new 8-Series is nice, but underwhelming. What are they going to do with the 6-Series now? Abandon the name? Will it still be a separate model? Convertible and Gean Coupe models are still under the moniker but the coupe is discontinued.
new 8-Series is nice, but underwhelming. What are they going to do with the 6-Series now? Abandon the name? Will it still be a separate model? Convertible and Gean Coupe models are still under the moniker but the coupe is discontinued.
My mother will be getting one for her birthday late next month, in being a BMW fanatic and daughter of a former BMW importer 40 years back to test out. And then likely swap it out for a M850i cabrio next year to replace her Texas kept (aging) E64 2009 650i and later M8 GC to replace her F06 M6 at Birmingham, UK area home (that I house-sit). Always gets to see new BMW models before the general public, which a few times I have been invited with her.
Oddly enough though, I did have to tell her, that the new 8-Series is plainly marketing wool and is not the same car introduced when she was in her 30s nearly 3 decades ago. She doesn't care, even despite the fact it doesn't have the V12 in her MY17 M760i. The only non-V12 7-Series she owned was her first, a last MY E38 740iL (V8) in 2000. From the E66.5 LCi to current G12, nearly every other 7-Series of hers (6 in counting) has been a 12, other than the 2016 740i she was surprised with in 2015 and then got rid 1 year later for the M760i. Her loyalty to BMW is second to none.
BMW is set to make big money on this, if more people fall for the 8-Series badge with 6-Series execution. Dr. Wolfgang Reitzle set out in 1981, to create the perfect flagship coupe and spent 8 years doing that, resulting in the 1990 original 850i V12 and planned M8 V12. He was the magic behind BMW of the late 1980s and 1990s, not to mention parts of the early 2000s, due to trickle down effect.
He left BMW after 2 decades in early 1999 following being denied CEO job and gave JLR legs, which are still relied on to date. He wanted to even transform Lincoln in a world class brand, but left because of Ford going very conservative with PAG budgets following Firestone losses and Jacques Nasser debacle.
Regarding the S550 Mustang, a design I liked very much pre-facelift, the designer responsible for it Kemal Curic, did his Mustang sketching entirely in Cologne, Germany from 2009 to December 2010, when he won the newly global Mustang internal design competition and then moved to Dearborn, Michigan by January 2011. (He moved to Lincoln Design after GT350)
Exactly one year later, the final exterior design was approved and then frozen belatedly 11 months later (minor hiccups) by early December 2012. There are many elements borrowed from BMW and Aston Martin on the Mustang, not to mention Porsche and Jaguar (nowadays). It is no surprise the similarities, when both were trying to emulate Aston Martin and Ford as well. The 4-Series wasn't public until end of 2012 and 2013, but still visible during 2011 and 2012.
The only reason that concept was shown, was to reintroduce the nameplate and get the public to accept the new 6-Series under the 8-Series label by trotting out a hot looking show version, plus give an advance look at it 18 months before launch.
What many people wrongly assume, is (likely) that these concepts are shown to provide serious feedback and then supposedly influence internal design work from there. In REALITY, at most if reception is very poor, they can either cancel an incoming model or DELAY it significantly to make requisite changes.
For BMW to have shown this concept back in May 2017 and then do what Lexus did with the LC, the G15 wouldn't have arrived until 2022 at earliest. Simply, you cannot alter a finalized design, when you are only 18 months out from market launch.
Production already began in July 2018, which was over 3 years after basic design approval was made in the first half of 2015. Design freeze was in late 2015. Comparatively Lexus had the luxury of developing the LF-LC concept first and then greenlighting a development from scratch afterward. BMW did that once with the i8 and took just as long as Lexus.
People need to be more realistic and stop listening to a select amount of ignorant auto bloggers and "journalists" that seemingly throw out these contradictory and opinionated theories on what "concept cars" truly represent in the industry and their overall intent. Just because a concept is shown PUBLICLY first, doesn't mean it was DEVELOPED first.
Some concepts will be design studies, an amalgamation of future design cues on production vehicles in the pipeline or plain styling exercise to gauge if a model should be developed or to keep design employees busy during product development lulls (see Infiniti).
Most concepts are the upcoming model itself, designed with less regulatory limitations, to garner hype or serve as a teaser. Personally I find it annoying how people feel every concept serves the same intent, which is not true if that concept shows up during prototype testing and NOT before that phase of development, let alone the whole model program.
The new "Supra" can be accused of being watered-down from the FT-1, but certainly not this.
BMW did however, pull a bait and switch. From 2013 to 2015, they designed the G15 coupe exterior (named 6-Series) and then decided in 2016, to rename it up a level and make a fancier concept to preview it, knowing VERY well the finalized real deal was more underwhelming and simply got people's hopes up. They did not decide to "fix" the 8-Series Concept and water it down, when that was developed well after after production styling.
What I ask is people be more discerning between concept cars and try to understand their intent. Not just assume the shoe fits for every concept. Some concepts will be like the precursors to the i8, LC 500, or A90 Supra, while others will be more like the LF-Ch/CT, Lexus SLV and HPS, of yore, and this 8-Series. And then that of design studies such as LF-SA, that has no production model yet (not until Yaris GA-B platform) and 2013 BMW Pininfarina Gran Lusso.
Last edited by Carmaker1; 11-02-18 at 02:07 PM.
11-03-18, 06:27 PM
#72
I think your comprehension is a bit off, as I greatly favour the LC 500 over the newly tarted-up "6-Series", overpriced by $50k and imposter BMW flagship.
I only made a factual statement, correcting a misconception regarding concepts, in order to prevent an inane rumour mill spreading about. I'd reckon maybe someone else is exhibiting mental gymnastics or simply misunderstood me?
Lexus underwent the vast effort of developing a range-topping vehicle from scratch and invested 3.5 to 4 years on design work out of 7 years total from inception to market from May 2010 on LF-LC project to May 2017 LC launch. Versus the meagre and typical 2 years BMW (typical for luxury segment) spent on designing this faux 8-Series (2013 to 2015), then pulled a bait and switch with an 11th hour "concept".
BMW copied Aston Martin's DB lineage aesthetic, as did Ford (actually belongs to Ford in reality) and that of Lexus with the One-77. The Lexus is more convincing as an exotic, like a bargain One-77. While the BMW looks like a more svelte Mustang.
Toyota could've shown an SC concept in 1988 and still similarly delivered a fantastic product in the 1992 SC 400 as done with the LF-LC & LC 500, unlike BMW being manipulative with public nostalgia today and delivering a lesser model with lofty ambitions.
Working in this industry, I know more than enough, and as a result have no favourites regarding brands. I'm simply objective, in addition to being an expert in my respective fields. Also, I don't do mental gymnastics, because I don't have to.
I only made a factual statement, correcting a misconception regarding concepts, in order to prevent an inane rumour mill spreading about. I'd reckon maybe someone else is exhibiting mental gymnastics or simply misunderstood me?
Lexus underwent the vast effort of developing a range-topping vehicle from scratch and invested 3.5 to 4 years on design work out of 7 years total from inception to market from May 2010 on LF-LC project to May 2017 LC launch. Versus the meagre and typical 2 years BMW (typical for luxury segment) spent on designing this faux 8-Series (2013 to 2015), then pulled a bait and switch with an 11th hour "concept".
BMW copied Aston Martin's DB lineage aesthetic, as did Ford (actually belongs to Ford in reality) and that of Lexus with the One-77. The Lexus is more convincing as an exotic, like a bargain One-77. While the BMW looks like a more svelte Mustang.
Toyota could've shown an SC concept in 1988 and still similarly delivered a fantastic product in the 1992 SC 400 as done with the LF-LC & LC 500, unlike BMW being manipulative with public nostalgia today and delivering a lesser model with lofty ambitions.
Working in this industry, I know more than enough, and as a result have no favourites regarding brands. I'm simply objective, in addition to being an expert in my respective fields. Also, I don't do mental gymnastics, because I don't have to.
01-19-19, 02:36 PM
#75
Lexus Fanatic
Saw the new 8 series today. Looks good, nothing crazy exciting. About the same size as the LC500. I don't think one could go wrong with either or of a LC or 8 series. IMO, the S-class looks larger. My past comments were wrong on this model from the looks department.