Hyundai Santa Cruz
06-07-20, 12:16 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
I suspect the mini truck is largely dead due to a combination of factors such as:
- demand
- safety standards(harder to fit airbags and other structural requirements in those tiny trucks while still having room to do some hauling.
- chicken tax making importation and sale of such a vehicle cost prohibitive
06-07-20, 12:42 PM
#47
Pole Position
I suspect the mini truck is largely dead due to a combination of factors such as:
- demand
- safety standards(harder to fit airbags and other structural requirements in those tiny trucks while still having room to do some hauling.
- chicken tax making importation and sale of such a vehicle cost prohibitive
I wanted to buy a 2015 Tacoma, but it was the same size as my 2001 Tundra!
06-07-20, 04:08 PM
#48
Pole Position
I see some of the points you are making, but I see a demand for an economical, frame-on-chassis mini-truck. Regarding safety standards, if sub-compacts can meet the standards, so too could a mini-truck. If manufacturers built them here, they could avoid high tariffs. Remember the NUMMI Toyota/GM joint venture? They built eight million cars and mini-trucks between 1984 and 2010.
>>>>I'd think it'd be a small demand & btw there are quite a few south of the border & I say its not worth the chicken tax vs the demand....Thats where used vehicles come in...
I wanted to buy a 2015 Tacoma, but it was the same size as my 2001 Tundra!
>>>>I'd think it'd be a small demand & btw there are quite a few south of the border & I say its not worth the chicken tax vs the demand....Thats where used vehicles come in...
I wanted to buy a 2015 Tacoma, but it was the same size as my 2001 Tundra!
06-07-20, 04:14 PM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
06-07-20, 06:50 PM
#50
Pole Position
06-13-20, 03:00 PM
#51
Pole Position
Agreed! I hope my 2001 access cab Tundra runs forever as I haven't seen anything as perfect in size, or more perfect, since Toyota up-sized the Tundra. I'm willing to go a little smaller, and I'm even willing to go full-sized when the next generation Tundra comes to market, IF IT EVER HAPPENS! When it is announced, it better be fantastic after Toyota made us wait so long.
06-13-20, 03:12 PM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
The original T-100/150 and 1Gen Tundras were almost complete flops in the U.S., because they were simply too small for much of our truck market. Unlike the T-series, the Tundra's first attempt had a Lexus-derived 4.6L V8 engine, but was only three-quarters (maybe seven-eights) size instead of being a true full-sizer. (that simply didn't cut it with F-150/Silverado fans). The 2Gen Tundra solved both the engine (5.7L I-Force V8) and the size-problem (it was a true full-sizer), and finally did begin to sell in significant numbers, but it had some flimsy hardware and build-quality problems unusual for a Toyota.
06-13-20, 04:18 PM
#53
Pole Position
Tundra's numbers are dwarfed by the big-3's numbers, but the big-3 are way ahead of the game in fleet sales, sales to the government (who only buy American) and to blue-collar workers who are very loyal to buying American. The big three also has a larger market due to their greater number of engine offerings and heavy-duty offerings.
As a Fleet Manager for a large county roads department with over 400 vehicles, I maintained and purchased a lot of pickups. We were forced to buy American, thus, we were cursed with a fleet of pickups with a myriad of repair issues.
Regardless of above, 1gen Tundra owners enjoy a high level of owner satisfaction and reliability, which is echoed in the high re-sale value of these trucks, especially the 4x4's where a 7/8 size profile pays big dividends off-road.
Most people want to believe that when it comes to pickup trucks, bigger is always better. However, I believe there are a lot of people like myself who aren't in construction, so, don't need a full-sized or heavy duty truck. I had hoped the latest gen Tacoma would fit the bill for replacing my 2001 Tundra, but the Tacoma is large on the outside and small on the inside--a bad combination for my needs!
06-13-20, 04:33 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
With all due respect, the sales data doesn't back up your post. According to Wikipedia, sales grew each year of the 1gen Tundras and almost reached Toyota's goal of 200K in 2007. When the true, full-sized version debuted, the sales numbers went down and have been at around 100K through 2019.
Tundra's numbers are dwarfed by the big-3's numbers, but the big-3 are way ahead of the game in fleet sales, sales to the government (who only buy American) and to blue-collar workers who are very loyal to buying American. The big three also has a larger market due to their greater number of engine offerings and heavy-duty offerings.
And there was a reason for that. For years (1994-2006), the Toyota marketers never truly understood the American truck market, and produced trucks that were either too small, had engines that were too small, or both. The 2Gen Tundra solved both problems (at last)...and had a very smooth-running drivetrain, but suffered from deterioration in build-solidness in hardware and fit/finish.
06-13-20, 04:39 PM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Anyhow, back to the Santa Cruz. According to Car and Driver, it will have free 3/36 maintenance in addition to its 10/100 and 5/60 warranties.
https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/santa-cruz
https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/santa-cruz
06-13-20, 10:17 PM
#56
Pole Position
I'd just as soon be looking at the used trucks, lot of different choices there, or look at the big 3 w/ a diesel power, 25-30 mpg.......
06-14-20, 05:46 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
With all due respect, the sales data doesn't back up your post. According to Wikipedia, sales grew each year of the 1gen Tundras and almost reached Toyota's goal of 200K in 2007. When the true, full-sized version debuted, the sales numbers went down and have been at around 100K through 2019.
Tundra's numbers are dwarfed by the big-3's numbers, but the big-3 are way ahead of the game in fleet sales, sales to the government (who only buy American) and to blue-collar workers who are very loyal to buying American. The big three also has a larger market due to their greater number of engine offerings and heavy-duty offerings.
As a Fleet Manager for a large county roads department with over 400 vehicles, I maintained and purchased a lot of pickups. We were forced to buy American, thus, we were cursed with a fleet of pickups with a myriad of repair issues.
Regardless of above, 1gen Tundra owners enjoy a high level of owner satisfaction and reliability, which is echoed in the high re-sale value of these trucks, especially the 4x4's where a 7/8 size profile pays big dividends off-road.
Most people want to believe that when it comes to pickup trucks, bigger is always better. However, I believe there are a lot of people like myself who aren't in construction, so, don't need a full-sized or heavy duty truck. I had hoped the latest gen Tacoma would fit the bill for replacing my 2001 Tundra, but the Tacoma is large on the outside and small on the inside--a bad combination for my needs!
Tundra's numbers are dwarfed by the big-3's numbers, but the big-3 are way ahead of the game in fleet sales, sales to the government (who only buy American) and to blue-collar workers who are very loyal to buying American. The big three also has a larger market due to their greater number of engine offerings and heavy-duty offerings.
As a Fleet Manager for a large county roads department with over 400 vehicles, I maintained and purchased a lot of pickups. We were forced to buy American, thus, we were cursed with a fleet of pickups with a myriad of repair issues.
Regardless of above, 1gen Tundra owners enjoy a high level of owner satisfaction and reliability, which is echoed in the high re-sale value of these trucks, especially the 4x4's where a 7/8 size profile pays big dividends off-road.
Most people want to believe that when it comes to pickup trucks, bigger is always better. However, I believe there are a lot of people like myself who aren't in construction, so, don't need a full-sized or heavy duty truck. I had hoped the latest gen Tacoma would fit the bill for replacing my 2001 Tundra, but the Tacoma is large on the outside and small on the inside--a bad combination for my needs!
You are right, The sales numbers for the 1st gen Tundra were solid, and then met the Toyota expectations as well. What the 1st gen Tundra did is that is more a “Toyota” truck than the newest gen Tundra that was more like a “America” truck. My son-in-law has a red Tundra from 2003, now with 580,000km. Some things needed changing out like the steering rack, bumper and other cosmetic parts but it has held up very well. Continues that “Toyota” feeling those people who can appreciate Toyota. First gen Tundra creates a following, a very good one. So did the T100 which was cool as it was made in Japan....someone at the marina we are part of have a 1996 model with no 750km,.... (specs wise, the American trucks were better) but Tundra was appealing to a different demographic at the time, the loyal Toyota owner who might have owned Toyota trucks or SUVs previously
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 06-14-20 at 06:06 PM.
06-14-20, 06:10 PM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Oh yes there is.
https://www.autonews.com/article/200...-sized-failure
^^^^^Which is exactly what I've been saying
https://www.autonews.com/article/200...-sized-failure
Originally Posted by article
Oh, and Toyota had zero experience building big trucks.
But their counterparts at Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. had persisted. The Americans wanted a big ol' truck, with all the trimmings.
The two sides never really got together, and the result was a tentative and ultimately unsuccessful first effort to enter the large-pickup segment.
Getting it right took about 15 years — not the kind of learning curve Toyota is accustomed to. Although Toyota didn't deliberately set out to blunder with its first two efforts, some insiders think the company had to fail before it could succeed.
"We looked at it as a three-generation strategy," says Chris Hostetter, vice president of advanced product strategy and product planning. "We saw it as, 'Get into the market, improve it, then get it right.' "
One reason it took so long was that the executives, engineers and product planners in Nagoya simply did not understand the U.S. full-sized pickup market.
But their counterparts at Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. had persisted. The Americans wanted a big ol' truck, with all the trimmings.
The two sides never really got together, and the result was a tentative and ultimately unsuccessful first effort to enter the large-pickup segment.
Getting it right took about 15 years — not the kind of learning curve Toyota is accustomed to. Although Toyota didn't deliberately set out to blunder with its first two efforts, some insiders think the company had to fail before it could succeed.
"We looked at it as a three-generation strategy," says Chris Hostetter, vice president of advanced product strategy and product planning. "We saw it as, 'Get into the market, improve it, then get it right.' "
One reason it took so long was that the executives, engineers and product planners in Nagoya simply did not understand the U.S. full-sized pickup market.
06-14-20, 06:14 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Good points. Another question is how much the upcoming electric trucks will make inroads into that market. I'm not terribly Gung-Ho on their prospects, but they can't be ruled out, particularly with the recent Tesla-craze.
06-15-20, 04:02 PM
#60
Pole Position
...production of the 1Gen Tundra ended in 2006, and the 2007 model was the start of the larger (and true-full-size) 2Gen 2007, which was launched in January of that year....the Toyota marketers never truly understood the American truck market, and produced trucks that were either too small, had engines that were too small, or both.
Here's a quote from Wiki that supports my contention that there is a market for smaller-than-full-size trucks in America: "At its introduction, the Tundra had the highest initial vehicle sales for Toyota in its history. It was selected as Motor Trend's Truck of the Year award for 2000 and Best Full- Size Truck from Consumer Reports."