Lexus Unfazed by LS Decline as S Class, Model S Grow
07-14-14, 06:15 PM
#211
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
07-14-14, 06:39 PM
#212
Lexus Fanatic
(just ask Lindsay Lohan....she has wrecked two of them)
07-15-14, 02:14 PM
#214
Lexus Fanatic
Isn't the RC-F shipping before the RC? I thought I remembered that...
07-15-14, 03:52 PM
#215
Lead Lap
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Some here are using the excuse that the S Class costs a lot more than the LS and thus it should be a better car. Well, when I first made it public here back in the winter that I had switched from being a loyal LS customer to the all new 2014 S550 and a couple months later took delivery on April 5, I said that I paid about $104K after a discount of about $4500. To have purchased the new LS 460L with all the options except for the executive seating, the MSRP would have come out to over $100K. Assuming I would have gotten an even larger discount from my Lexus dealer, perhaps I would have paid about $95K for the new LS. The kicker is that quite a few of the incredible options that I have with the S550 are not available on the LS. So, assuming (fairly bold assumption I might add) that I would have gotten this larger discount from Lexus, I paid about $9K more for a car that by everyone's review is on another level above any other luxury car at this time.
most s class in my area are all over 110k. i would say 115k is the norm. most LS in my area are around 80-95k. so the real difference in my area is about 15-20 grand. i don't know about the other area.
does anybody know the avg transaction price of both vehicles?
07-15-14, 04:30 PM
#216
Lexus Fanatic
The S Class is just a significantly more expensive car. We went through this with Pats original thread, he refused to accept it then but that doesn't change the fact that in order to get an LS460L over $100k you need to add EVERY available option, including options that are only special order options.
Remember VERY few LS's sold are even the "L" model.
You can't compare the most expensive LS460L possible to a base S550 and say "Hey, its not much more". The LS at $100k is still basically a $75,000 car...just with a lot of options. The S Class is just on another level...thats why there is equipment that isn't even available on the LS, thats why the experience is so much better....because from the get go the S Class is basically a $100k car...while the LS is a $72k car from the get go.
Remember VERY few LS's sold are even the "L" model.
You can't compare the most expensive LS460L possible to a base S550 and say "Hey, its not much more". The LS at $100k is still basically a $75,000 car...just with a lot of options. The S Class is just on another level...thats why there is equipment that isn't even available on the LS, thats why the experience is so much better....because from the get go the S Class is basically a $100k car...while the LS is a $72k car from the get go.
07-15-14, 04:46 PM
#217
The S Class is just a significantly more expensive car. We went through this with Pats original thread, he refused to accept it then but that doesn't change the fact that in order to get an LS460L over $100k you need to add EVERY available option, including options that are only special order options.
Remember VERY few LS's sold are even the "L" model.
You can't compare the most expensive LS460L possible to a base S550 and say "Hey, its not much more". The LS at $100k is still basically a $75,000 car...just with a lot of options. The S Class is just on another level...thats why there is equipment that isn't even available on the LS, thats why the experience is so much better....because from the get go the S Class is basically a $100k car...while the LS is a $72k car from the get go.
Remember VERY few LS's sold are even the "L" model.
You can't compare the most expensive LS460L possible to a base S550 and say "Hey, its not much more". The LS at $100k is still basically a $75,000 car...just with a lot of options. The S Class is just on another level...thats why there is equipment that isn't even available on the LS, thats why the experience is so much better....because from the get go the S Class is basically a $100k car...while the LS is a $72k car from the get go.
07-15-14, 04:49 PM
#218
Lexus Fanatic
I'm sure...hence why I'm thinking I better get an LS now before it starts in the $80s LOL
Case in point...me...I'm thinking I'll get an LS next time. I'm not even considering an S Class. Why? Because I can't afford one. I CAN afford an LS...but the LS I would buy will have a price that starts with a 7. If I were able to buy a $100,000 car...I wouldn't even consider an LS over an S Class...
Case in point...me...I'm thinking I'll get an LS next time. I'm not even considering an S Class. Why? Because I can't afford one. I CAN afford an LS...but the LS I would buy will have a price that starts with a 7. If I were able to buy a $100,000 car...I wouldn't even consider an LS over an S Class...
07-15-14, 08:27 PM
#219
The S Class is just a significantly more expensive car. We went through this with Pats original thread, he refused to accept it then but that doesn't change the fact that in order to get an LS460L over $100k you need to add EVERY available option, including options that are only special order options.
Remember VERY few LS's sold are even the "L" model.
You can't compare the most expensive LS460L possible to a base S550 and say "Hey, its not much more". The LS at $100k is still basically a $75,000 car...just with a lot of options. The S Class is just on another level...thats why there is equipment that isn't even available on the LS, thats why the experience is so much better....because from the get go the S Class is basically a $100k car...while the LS is a $72k car from the get go.
Remember VERY few LS's sold are even the "L" model.
You can't compare the most expensive LS460L possible to a base S550 and say "Hey, its not much more". The LS at $100k is still basically a $75,000 car...just with a lot of options. The S Class is just on another level...thats why there is equipment that isn't even available on the LS, thats why the experience is so much better....because from the get go the S Class is basically a $100k car...while the LS is a $72k car from the get go.
07-15-14, 09:02 PM
#220
Lexus Fanatic
Because its a comparison that is bound to turn out in the S Class' favor. This is the issue when you deride cars with every available option compared to better cars with no options. The basic car itself is built to a higher standard when the initial price of entry is higher.
Case in point. A loaded GS450h costs about what a base LS460 costs. Yet...the LS460 is still nicer inside, has better materials, rides better and is more solid, its bigger, smoother, quieter. Has some features the GS doesn't have. Does that mean the LS460 is a "better car" than the GS450h? It is...but thats not to the detriment of the GS...the fact of the matter is that the cars are not comparable because that $72k GS450h is at its heart a $50k GS350...and thus the main components of its interior, body, etc are shared with that $50k GS350...and cannot reasonably be expected to be the same quality as what they can put in an LS460...which starts at $72k. That loaded $72k GS450h is a real outlier, when the cost of entry of most GS's is between $50-55k.
The fact is, almost nobody buys a $100,000 LS. Almost nobody buys a $72k GS. They don't even make them without them being special ordered. Most people are paying $85k-90K for an LS460L nicely equipped, and $75k-80k for an LS460...and MOST people are buying the LS460. I've spent many, many hours on Lexus lots looking at their inventory...and I don't believe I have ever seen in person an LS460 on the lot with a sticker over maybe $92k.
The fact also is that your S Class is on the low end of the option range. For instance...I've never seen one other than yours with the base wheels. The S Class is simply a better car with a higher price. If Lexus moves the LS upmarket in 2017 we'll talk then, but for now comparing the S Class to the LS remains pointless...as it is with the 7 Series, XJ, A8...its just on another level. That doesn't make any of those cars bad cars, they're just less expensive cars. The S Class starts $20k more than the LS. Yes its more car for that money...but its still more money.
Like I said...if I were looking to spend $105,000 on a car I would undoubtedly get an S550 as you did. But, the vast majority of LS buyers are not in that price range...and to us the S Class is much more expensive. I'm not going to spend more than maybe $75k. That means to get an S550 with basically no options...I'm $20,000 short. Since I lease, I'm going to be looking at payments between $900-$1,000 probably for the LS. An S550 will run $1,500+ from what I see on MBworld. So again, even there I'm $500-$600 short. To put that in perspective, I can lease an LS, and another GS for what it would cost me to lease one S550. In short....the S Class is much more expensive than the LS.
I'm not saying the S Class is overpriced...I'm just saying I'm not in that price range. But, I am in the LS' price range. So...I suppose that means the cars are in different price ranges for a wide variety of consumers doesn't it?
Case in point. A loaded GS450h costs about what a base LS460 costs. Yet...the LS460 is still nicer inside, has better materials, rides better and is more solid, its bigger, smoother, quieter. Has some features the GS doesn't have. Does that mean the LS460 is a "better car" than the GS450h? It is...but thats not to the detriment of the GS...the fact of the matter is that the cars are not comparable because that $72k GS450h is at its heart a $50k GS350...and thus the main components of its interior, body, etc are shared with that $50k GS350...and cannot reasonably be expected to be the same quality as what they can put in an LS460...which starts at $72k. That loaded $72k GS450h is a real outlier, when the cost of entry of most GS's is between $50-55k.
The fact is, almost nobody buys a $100,000 LS. Almost nobody buys a $72k GS. They don't even make them without them being special ordered. Most people are paying $85k-90K for an LS460L nicely equipped, and $75k-80k for an LS460...and MOST people are buying the LS460. I've spent many, many hours on Lexus lots looking at their inventory...and I don't believe I have ever seen in person an LS460 on the lot with a sticker over maybe $92k.
The fact also is that your S Class is on the low end of the option range. For instance...I've never seen one other than yours with the base wheels. The S Class is simply a better car with a higher price. If Lexus moves the LS upmarket in 2017 we'll talk then, but for now comparing the S Class to the LS remains pointless...as it is with the 7 Series, XJ, A8...its just on another level. That doesn't make any of those cars bad cars, they're just less expensive cars. The S Class starts $20k more than the LS. Yes its more car for that money...but its still more money.
Like I said...if I were looking to spend $105,000 on a car I would undoubtedly get an S550 as you did. But, the vast majority of LS buyers are not in that price range...and to us the S Class is much more expensive. I'm not going to spend more than maybe $75k. That means to get an S550 with basically no options...I'm $20,000 short. Since I lease, I'm going to be looking at payments between $900-$1,000 probably for the LS. An S550 will run $1,500+ from what I see on MBworld. So again, even there I'm $500-$600 short. To put that in perspective, I can lease an LS, and another GS for what it would cost me to lease one S550. In short....the S Class is much more expensive than the LS.
I'm not saying the S Class is overpriced...I'm just saying I'm not in that price range. But, I am in the LS' price range. So...I suppose that means the cars are in different price ranges for a wide variety of consumers doesn't it?
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-15-14 at 09:17 PM.
07-16-14, 07:03 AM
#221
Racer
Thanks, for bring it home SW13GS. After reading your post I took the liberty of building a S550. I only include the basic things I desire and the car came up to a whopping $133,188. I got have the body kit with at least with the 19 inch AMG rims. Bare bone is just not an option for me.
07-16-14, 07:11 AM
#222
Lead Lap
I actually prefer the 18" wheel option, as the ride is much better. From what I've been seeing on the forums the tires that come with the 19" wheels are particularly susceptible to bubbling, too. It's sad runflats still aren't up to par.
07-16-14, 07:14 AM
#223
Racer
Most likely I'll wait a year or two like I usually do and purchase the S550 Coupe. Of course with the AMG Kit
07-16-14, 08:00 AM
#224
SW13GS, you keep referring to MOST people and I am saying in MY CASE. I don't give a hoot about what an S550 or an LS 460L would cost MOST people. I know for a fact what the difference in cost would have been for me between the LS460L AWD with all the options except the executive seating and the S550 4Matic with the options I listed above. So, that's the bottom line. And, the bottom line is that in MY CASE the difference in cost would be no more than $9-10K. And that may be stretching it. I repeated several times that I would need to order the LS460L AWD with ALL the available options (without the executive seating), in order to bring it as close to the packages I ordered for my S550. And, even then, it would not compare to the options I got with the S550 because some options are simply not available with the LS460L AWD. I hope this clears up this matter.
07-16-14, 08:22 AM
#225
Lexus Fanatic
However...the issue is that you are infering worth and pricing differentials on the whole just by YOUR CASE. You keep saying "The S550 isn't much more, people keep saying its $20k more and I just don't see how" and we keep trying to explain to you that you were only interested in a completely loaded LS460L which is a rare vehicle that almost nobody is interested in buying, and that you can't make a blanket universal statement like "The S550 isn't much more"...when really for most people it is as I have demonstrated. Dare I say MOST LS buyers would not even consider an S550 because of the price differential.
When we as enthusiasts discuss vehicles we discuss them in generalities, not in a manner that is only relevant to our situations, which is what you are doing.