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Lexus Unfazed by LS Decline as S Class, Model S Grow

Old 07-22-14, 06:56 AM
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Put back on the stock rims and I can still pick up chicks in this coupe.
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Old 07-22-14, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by cmk1 View Post
I figured this would be the only explanation, as no one would undertake delaying a replacement and not plan to wow the industry. Otherwise a late 2013 LS redesign would have just sufficed instead of the 2012 facelift. Efficiency and performance seem to be a key focus, which sounds like Akio Toyoda's typical ideal's. I trust at least Toyota/Lexus not to make the same damaging mistakes that Jaguar once did under Ford ownership.

Ford canceled a state of the art XJ in 1990 that was due in 1994 (I6, V8, V12 engines) and replacing it with a heavy facelift (X300) that lasted another 8-9 years. The "replacement" (X350) came way too late. Jaguar has yet to fully recover from that terrible decision, even with the "trendy" exterior of the X351 variant (2010-17). The next model in 2017 will long eradicate that problem and truly all-new.

Congratulations on your new W222 by the way, as it's a lovely car from what Ive experienced here and there the past 9 months. Although an excellent and trend-setting redesign, it is possible the next S-Class might be the largest S-Class revolution since the W140 and W220 (the latter was a negative one).
I wouldn't say Ford damaged Jaguar. By your own logic it was Ford that rescued Jag/Land Rover, Tata only put the finishing touches on this new batch of Jag/Land Rover.
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Old 07-22-14, 07:34 PM
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Well, it seems as if my source is correct about the Jaguar and Porsche direction for the next LS. From Motor Trend/Lexus Enthusiast:

While the LS has traditionally been something of a rival to the Mercedes S-Class, people I spoke with at Lexus have been hinting that the new big Lexus will in fact target the sportier end of the segment — think Jaguar XJ and Porsche Panamera. Further proof that Mercedes ought to go ahead and write, “Can’t Touch This” on their new S-Class.

Regardless, the new LS will look to take on the S63 AMG by also using the 600-hp twin-turbo V-8 in what will be called the LS F. You can expect the LS 600hL to return (probably as the LS H), with the same Bavarian-flavored hybrid setup found in the SC H.

The base LS will get the 5.0-liter V-8. The new LS will launch in 2016 as a 2017 model.
Seems that the next trademarks filings for a saloon by Toyota JKK through April 2015 will be: LS500 and LSF.

Originally Posted by GiantsFan View Post
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Originally Posted by doge View Post
I wouldn't say Ford damaged Jaguar. By your own logic it was Ford that rescued Jag/Land Rover, Tata only put the finishing touches on this new batch of Jag/Land Rover.
That's not what I explicitly said. I am very connected to JLR and can see some of the desecration of Jaguar prestige and image under Ford. Ford certainly improved reliability with the X300 XJ-Series and X100 XK=Series in the '90s-early 2000s. However, the X200 and X400 projects that gave birth to the 1999 S-Type and 2001 X-Type, were not executed correctly.

Styling the X350 XJ flagship similarly to it, yet allowing it to arrive beforehand was a disastrous decision. Months before the X-Type press release in late 2000, I was shown the final X350 behind closed doors in Allesley, Coventry. The X350 XJ was not even publicised for another 2 years and at times came across in basic XJ8 grade as a supersized X-Type.

Utilizing Mondeo components was a terrible idea, as well as the fact the X308 fell behind in tech against the E38 and early W220, while the S-Type had some items it lacked. The S-Type seems as if it was hastily drawn up in 1994, just for the Jaguar customer base to expand and to spread the costs of an expensive RWD platform for the Lincoln LS.

For obvious reasons, I will not speak negatively of TATA. I will say though, that the first model to have full TATA input is the X152, known as the F-Type. That is based on a shortened X150 platform of the XK, in turn related to the X350.

Like you said, TATA acquired Jaguar shortly before the current XJ design was frozen (concept design was defined in November 2006) and as the 2008 XF was in pilot production. The first ground up model, is of course the X760 compact saloon. Very beautiful car, that while evolutionary of current Jaguar design language, will soon give BMW a run for its money.

As for Land Rover, BMW developed most of what appeared on the L322 Range Rover in late 2001. That is what propelled things. It was not until the 2005 facelifts, that added the Sport variant (based on Discovery III), that it was all Ford-based. Ford had about half of input on the L405. I'd say that I'm more impressed with Ford's work at Land Rover overall, compared to Jaguar. Brand perception of Jaguar has always been of importance to me, in being the under-dog of the two. Jaguar invented the sports saloon back in the 1960s, yet gets no credit for that. BMW didn't have anything until the E23 in 1977 nor was the S-Class truly performance oriented until the mid-1980s/1990s.

Last edited by Carmaker1; 07-22-14 at 08:20 PM. Reason: BMW association
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Old 07-22-14, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
Designs aging well is dependant on how well the core basics like proportions are done. The formula for proper proportions changes little, but not everyone follows it.
Exactly. The SC300/400 are great examples of that. They looked contemporary years after their introduction and still look good today.
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