It's about time for Lexus to offer cars with more power. Trust me the customer's ask for it in showrooms and service lanes everyday. Making fast cars wasn't ever meant to make big money. Where you gain is the E63 owner that buys his wife a C350 and kid a CLA250. Just think what a driveway in the burbs can offer advertising wise with a LS-F, RX350 and a IS250.

There are many people out there that look at Lexus as a no testosterone, elderly owning brand. Pulling up to the club, impressing members of the local country club or showing off at the track has never been a successful mission. Not to mention lack of contribution to the spirit of motoring.

The F-Sport cars have helped fill some gap but they still are only 3/4 way up the ladder. Money and sales volume is not all that's important. The LFA gave you great technology but at this point it is in the past to the customer base. Making a 4.6L Bi-turbo motor with gas saving technology is nothing more than producing it now a days. Make a 520hp 5.4L NA V8 with a Yamaha intake setup. Think of the sound it would make.

So what if the option starts at 25k. Asking 75-130k for a performance car that's fun as hell to drive is not a big deal these days. The economy has only really hurt some. Lexus holds a great resell value and that will help sales also. I feel many people don't buy from Lexus because they just don't offer what they want. Think of a great sounding, reliable and high resell valued car with the best service departments around. MB,Audi and BMW wouldn't know what to do next.

Lexus could hands down own the US market if they wanted. Ending all this performance bashing and open the aftermarket world up to them. I feel Lexus is like a football team that has a huge following, makes the playoffs every year but always get's beat the first game.

Only time will tell........

 

Not that simple...ppl have been asking for updated engines in almost every thread recently in CarChat lol.

Lexus will not be catching MB/BMW anytime soon in terms of prestige and performance models.
They are now in danger of Audi and Cadillac taking away more of their market share.

Next 5 yrs are huge and will shape how well Lexus does.
new LS, new F models, new powerplants are coming and should help.

Luxury segment is EXTREMELY competitive and now u got Even Jaguar and Maserati trying to get a piece.
Lexus as a brand is still fairly new and has weak prestige especially internationally.

 

BRADSGS4............... Bravo, well said, I agree 100%

Feels like Lexus is afraid to go big, performance wise, they are more comfortable making humble boring old folk's boat. Which is ok since they were the sales leader for many years............

 

This has been discussed in depth….we know twin turbo V-6s and V-8s are coming for example…

 

how many of these 520hp cars would they sell? 100 per month?

I suggest tripple turbo, because bi-turbo is played out.

 

No Quad turbo..and base the cars on heavier cars, make the GS based off the LS for example….make them heavier, less involving but they will have 600hp for people to argue about on the internet.

Besides, if Lexus made a 550hp sedan, people on the internetz would say it only makes 420hp b/c their ponies are not as healthy.

 

I have to agree. It seems like Lexus focuses only on sales numbers too much and need to realize that you need to elevate the brand and make a statement . This entails building cars that arent the most profitable. I agree that cars like this would bring newer buyers into show rooms. Reliability and build quality is great but we want some power too. F sport so far is about better suspensions and minor cosmetic changes. To me a performance line means more power . Not just a hefty bump in price for a better suspension, aggressive grille, and different wheels. I want a 50 HP bump and I want people to know it has more power. M and AMG cars ALWAYS boost power as well as the handling. Lexus is clearly forgetting 40% of the equation in building exciting cars.

Mercedes doesn't sell a ton of C63s, E63s, S63s, or even S65s BUT they make them and offer them. BMW doesn't sell a million M3s, m5s, m6s, X6M, X5M, or 1series M cars BUT they are available and they all have more power. F sport is kind of too little too late in my opinion. Its a great step in the right direction and its has gotten much better pretty quickly but its still failing to meet the competition nose to nose. Enough with this wall flower BS. Bring the power Lexus. You know its not enough and so do we. We are waiting on you. AMG and M cars have been on the road for decades and generation after generation passes and the performance guys with disposable income ( also the guys on the forums and all of the events) continue to buy and root for the other side.

Address this issue with aggression not bean counters.

When you go to jail you beat the **** out of the biggest guy there on the first day ...right??? Well stop getting into a shoving match and walk away. Beat the crap out of the M and AMG cars or just dont bother. Dont half *** it. Beat them down like a red headed step child or continue to remain in the performance shadows for most of your line up. Still not a bad place to be in the luxury market but if you want younger customers and more respect ( we know you want both ) then do what you need to do. We know you have the money for the R&D and can make amazing engines.

 

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, Lexus is not in DIRECT competition with Mercedes, BMW, or Audi so they don't really need to live up to their hype. Lexus is a Japanese/Asian Luxury Automaker and in direct competition to other Japanese/Asian Automakers like Infiniti and Acura, and now Hyundai (even though korean) and is quite frankly leading the pack IMO.

There is a certain style that every country's automakers builds their cars, and if you cross reference a japanese vs euro vs american automakers, you will see very distinct similarities with in a countries design and R&D compared if you compare Euro to Japanese to american. I don't think lexus has anything to worry about anytime soon even if they decide to change up the power train.

In the global market they may not be leading but to the average american and I think even to the world wide car buyer, they think of 3 things, Do I want to buy japanese reliability, European style, or American price perspective.

 

Toyota/Lexus has lost me as an owner, and is losing me as an enthusiast. Random example: I just saw a GS350 at Costco, and no lie - the Hyundai Genesis sedan is a WAY better looking car...more elegant and sportier looking.

Anyway, "new engines are coming", blah, blah, blah. WHEN?? How long are we supposed to wait for them to catch up? These F sports with no extra power are a joke. They need turbos yesterday. And when are they ever going to offer a good (ie dual clutch) transmission? The manual mode - to clarify, that's "MANUAL" mode - in my IS350 was a self-shifting JOKE....I hope whoever designed and signed off on that system is now in North Korea breaking rocks.

And how many of their supposed sport sedans (to be fair, this applies somewhat to the whole industry) come with a limited slip diff? It took them 2 years to pull their heads out on that one for the IS-F. Pathetic. Which by the way...no thanks on the big bore V8 - if I want that, I'll buy domestic. Same goes for you, Infiniti. The Japanese must bring back our boost immediately! > : ( lol

Pretty sad that the only Japanese car to offer all this (that I can think of) is the Evo X. Which by the way, thankfully does the paddles correctly like Infiniti and Ferrari...on the COLUMN.

 

This is just completely wrong. Lexus is in direct competition in sales with Audi and BMW. Probably even more so with the typical Mercedes buyer, unless said buyer is buying a Mercedes because "it's the best", at which point no brand would lure them away anyways. (I know quite a few people who bought Mercedes simply due to peer pressure and expectation of their family).

Lexus is going to struggle because Mercedes, Audi, and BMW are now performing in the niche Lexus made for themselves - that is, reliable, tier 1.5 luxury cars. All three Germans are now offering cars that meet (for the most part) the reliability that Lexus offers for the first 5 years or ownership. Perhaps Lexus will last longer (who knows with recent complaints about quality), but by then most "new car buyers" have purchased something else.

So, Lexus must compete against those three in their niches - that is, offering a true luxury experience with both performance and customization.

On the other end, you have Infiniti, which is barely a luxury brand (Nissan+), which I say as an Infiniti owner. Cadillac has been building their brand image for a decade and is finally starting to see the results of that. Infiniti offers just what Lexus does with a less premium nameplate, and Cadillac is trying to prove they can compete with the Germans as well.

So, Lexus is facing competition on both ends. We know what is coming, and we have an idea of what is likely needed to keep the brand relevant, so let's see if they can deliver. Akio Toyoda did build the FR-S, after all, so what they have in development may surprise us all yet.

 

To Lexus defense - at least we finally have a damn coupe for the first time since 2000. Thats 15 YEARS LOL.

I still not sure why they killed the 3rd gen IS-F.

By the time Lexus gets the new engines - the other automakers will prob have autonomous cars.

Audi - turbo4, supercharhed 6s, turbo v8
BMW - turbo 4 6 8.
MB - turbo 4 6 8
Maserati - turbo 6 8
Jaguar - Turbo 4, Supercharged 6 8.

Lexus - ........something on the way we hope.

 

Not entirely wrong. Sales is a HUGE part of a companies success and Mercedes and Lexus are billion dollar companies BUT cant really say mercedes is in direct competition when Mercedes exports to over 135 countires, BMW and Audi are 100+ and lexus only exports to 70 countries world wide. They have a MUCH larger market than lexus does. Lexus cannot compete in sales world wide even if they tried. Cadillac/Buick is only available in 55 countries so they cannot even directly compare sales wide to mercedes or bmw or audi or any of those brands. These brands can only do best in their own markets before being a world wide competitor

As for luxury to performance wise in the japanese markets (which is where i was referring to because the OP was talking about performance as opposed to sales) Lexus IS the leader in their own market before the world wide market. Maybe not in HP numbers but in overall performance of a vehicle. Everyone compares to lexus and ask why they dont have a turbo 4, 6 or 8 cyl engine but fails to realize that there aren't any japanese luxury manufacturers that offer a turbo 6, or 8 off the show room floor

 

Lexus is in direct competition with BMW, Mercedes , and Audi, ( I think its ridiculous to say they are not imho) BUT they are in competition with their common more luxurious popular models. They have nothing to go head to head with any performance model except for the ISF and it always loses the comparison tests . The reason we love the LFA and the world was forced to respect it was because it was truly a masterpiece and better than the competition ( and better than some V12 race cars like the Ferrari 599 GTO). This is what we need throughout the lineup. Crushing and undeniable performance offered in most , if not all, trims . I know its easier said than done, but the other guys have done it.

 

Im not talking sales wide, in a global market, if you sell the same product you are always in direct competition with everyone else who sells cars or what ever.

I am more talking about R&D from these automakers and the way they build their cars. Like i said in my last post, everyone complains why doesn't lexus make a turbo/supercharged this or that to answer for MB, AUDI and BMW but fails to realize that there are NO japanese luxury brands that offer a turbo/supercharged this or that. Toyota YES, Lexus NO!; Nissan YES, Infiniti NO!(that hybrid doesnt count); Honda, well not really, Acura NO! All other japanese car brands have luxury inspired lines but the Big 3 of japan has been accounted for

IN europe, MB HAS Turbo/supercharged show room vehicles, Audi HAS turbo/supercharged show room vehicles, BMW HAS turbo/supercharged showroom vehicles.

Comparing Euro to JDM is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both fruit YES so there is competition between which one is better yet also completely different

 

So you've been wrong before and you're wrong again. Lexus is indeed in DIRECT competition with those brands, especially here in America where they all focus on the luxury segment.

Yes BMW and Mercedes sell more worldwide, but they're also both more of a full-line type manufacturer in the other parts of the world with more extensive entry level offerings that Lexus doesn't need to tackle, it has Toyota for that.

The other Japanese luxury brands may also not offer the turbo powertrains that the Germans are, but that's because they're behind even Lexus, and none of them compete at the level that Lexus competes at, which is at the top with BMW and Mercedes. But Infiniti will soon be offering a 2.0L turbo that they're sourcing from Mercedes.