BMW - No Longer The Ultimate Driving Machine
It's also plain that Mike (Blueprint) made a good post. I agree with him, as far as a "Driver's Car" goes", on the 5-series, but I'm not sure if I would pick a 5-series over a 335i or xi.
03-25-13, 11:23 AM
#63
Pole Position
And like you, I would rather have a new 3 than the new 5....though I don't like either of their front-end designs.
03-25-13, 12:24 PM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
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03-25-13, 12:32 PM
#65
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I've owned 3, 5, M, and Z3 series BMW's and always enjoyed the total driving experience. The brand hasn't been chosen by me lately as chassis dynamics and "sportiness" has taken a back seat to high MPG. Recently test drove both X1 and 3 series before choosing a 300h; the thrill is still there, and whenever BMW becomes a player in the hybrid world (their current offerings do not emphasize mpg) they will have a shot with me.
03-25-13, 02:56 PM
#66
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First post here. As a former 550xi owner, I was curious when I read the Lexus GS F ad in Road & Track and how it beat the 535i in a series of performance tests. So I visited Lexus' website, but didn't see a full set of test data, just a few videos. Naturally I went to Google to search and still all I found was a couple of videos. This thread also showed up in the search and yet again, only a couple of videos - no comprehensive test results showing all of the results. So I went to the AMCI Testing website where they talked about a long history of testing for the manufacturers, but again no test data. I kept searching until I found an article which talked about one of Lexus' marketing firms: www.amcimarketing.com. I followed the link which redirected me to AMCI (Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc.) Global, which is the same AMCI that conducted the testing. The Lexus GS F can win in a fair fight (i.e. Motortrend's comparo), but I'm not so sure that AMCI gave us impartial results. Is Lexus doing something fishy by using their marketing firm to do comparos? Why not brag they won an unquestionably impartial MT comparo instead? 
03-25-13, 04:01 PM
#67
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Thanks for the suggestion, but any search for the "GS F test data" resulted in hits for "GS F Sport test data". The AMCI marketing firm showed us the test data for the Lexus GS F Sport that they wanted us to see in their videos. I don't believe any more more data will be released to the public. I found test data from MT, R&T, and Insideline for the Lexus GS F Sport, so I am satisfied that I familiar with test numbers for the Lexus GS F Sport from actual independent testers.
03-25-13, 08:47 PM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
1) Drive a Toyota Camry on it.
2) Then drive a GS350 F Sport
If you still cant tell a difference, then u should save 30grand and buy a Camry.
03-26-13, 09:07 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
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Living in the Chicago area, I find raw power a lot more appealing than the so-called "handling". With the advantage in power and torque, I can beat 99% of the cars where a four lane road narrows to two after a traffic light. It's fun, you don't have to go to Colorado to do it and it 's very American as we like drag racing more than we like a Monte Carlo rally type racing.
now take a slow-*** (relatively) miata or fr-s on a road that isn't rifle straight for miles, and take a right-angled corner at 30 without braking. it's amazing and guaranteed to put a smile on my face, and it's not illegal.
So my definition of a sport car is a car that can smoke the tires or do 0-60 in less than 4. Anything else is just a 4-door family sedan whose owner thinks he is 20 again.
03-26-13, 09:34 AM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
emphasis added - "we" may apply to you, but not to everyone or even a majority. this "we" for example is much less interested in fast 0-60. you put your foot down, a few seconds later you're at 60. now what? been there, done that. i drove a porsche 911-turbo one time that was so insanely fast it was ludicrous to have on public roads. it does over 100 in third (manual) gear.
now take a slow-*** (relatively) miata or fr-s on a road that isn't rifle straight for miles, and take a right-angled corner at 30 without braking. it's amazing and guaranteed to put a smile on my face, and it's not illegal.
now take a slow-*** (relatively) miata or fr-s on a road that isn't rifle straight for miles, and take a right-angled corner at 30 without braking. it's amazing and guaranteed to put a smile on my face, and it's not illegal.
The only thing, Paul, is that, with the Miata / FR-S suspensions, those winding roads had better be smooth.
completely and utterly disagree.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-26-13 at 09:39 AM.
03-26-13, 09:47 AM
#72
Lexus Fanatic
In general, I would define a "sports" car as one with two doors (one on each side, though the Mazda RX-8, with its two rear half-doors, may barely fit in), a somewhat lower-than-sedan-average ride-height, and more responsive steering, handing, and braking than is average for common everyday sedans. That includes, of course, many different vehicles, from small inexpensive roadsters in the Mazda Miata's class to some exotics costing a million dollars or more.
04-01-13, 12:10 AM
#74
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Thanks for the suggestion, but any search for the "GS F test data" resulted in hits for "GS F Sport test data". The AMCI marketing firm showed us the test data for the Lexus GS F Sport that they wanted us to see in their videos. I don't believe any more more data will be released to the public. I found test data from MT, R&T, and Insideline for the Lexus GS F Sport, so I am satisfied that I familiar with test numbers for the Lexus GS F Sport from actual independent testers.
How do you explain then, that the FULL FLEDGED M5 was slower in the slalom than the GS350 F-Sport per Edmund's testing?
See this :
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/7841071-post22.html
Are you now implying that a 535i with M-Sport suspension is faster in the slalom than an M5?
Right now Lexus GS has no answer to the V8 5 series in terms of straightline speed/acceleration.
But it must be emphasized that BMW 5 series currently has no answer to the Lexus GS in terms of chassis tuning.
Yes, I know that there is an aftermarket for suspension upgrades to the 5 series but this is the first time that a 5 series( in base form or even M5 form), handles noticeably worse than its equivalent Lexus GS competitor stock from the factory.
The 5 series needs to go on a diet plain and simple.
People buying an M-Sport 5 series or even an M5 expecting the ultimate in sedan handling and responsiveness are buying into false advertising.
04-01-13, 06:18 AM
#75
Lexus Champion
However:
Until Lexus releases a >500 HP GS-F, I would still pick an M5 over a GS350 F-sport.
Just my opinion =)