BMW - No Longer The Ultimate Driving Machine
Haha...thread title fail. 
Big frickin' deal the 535 is a floaty ride that is sufficient, but doesn't target the enthusiast. Run the 550 and see how things turn out...or better yet the M5....lol.
Yes, BMW doesn't have an answer to the LF A (and never has) and the IS F stacks up nicely against the M3, but after that it's a complete joke. You can run down just about every segment and there is no answer from Lexus when it comes to driving dynamics.
SUV's? LOL! X5M/X6M or even the 5.0 are simply on a different planet. Frick, my diesel will out handle anything Lexus has.
GT cars? Hmmm....650 coupe OR convertible....or M6. Lexus' answer?
Small coupes/verts. 1M. Lexus' answer?
Flagships. B7....or I have something that will run circles around an LS....lol.
Picking one car....at the bottom of a model line up....and then touting some big "win" is a lame attempt to beat one's chest over nothing.
This is the kind of fanboi thread that I'm used to seeing on the BMW forums.
Big frickin' deal the 535 is a floaty ride that is sufficient, but doesn't target the enthusiast. Run the 550 and see how things turn out...or better yet the M5....lol.
Yes, BMW doesn't have an answer to the LF A (and never has) and the IS F stacks up nicely against the M3, but after that it's a complete joke. You can run down just about every segment and there is no answer from Lexus when it comes to driving dynamics.
SUV's? LOL! X5M/X6M or even the 5.0 are simply on a different planet. Frick, my diesel will out handle anything Lexus has.
GT cars? Hmmm....650 coupe OR convertible....or M6. Lexus' answer?
Small coupes/verts. 1M. Lexus' answer?
Flagships. B7....or I have something that will run circles around an LS....lol.
Picking one car....at the bottom of a model line up....and then touting some big "win" is a lame attempt to beat one's chest over nothing.
This is the kind of fanboi thread that I'm used to seeing on the BMW forums.
You probably don't know off-road enthusiasts use SUVs for going through jungles and mountains.
Haha...thread title fail.
Big frickin' deal the 535 is a floaty ride that is sufficient, but doesn't target the enthusiast. Run the 550 and see how things turn out...or better yet the M5....lol.
Yes, BMW doesn't have an answer to the LF A (and never has) and the IS F stacks up nicely against the M3, but after that it's a complete joke. You can run down just about every segment and there is no answer from Lexus when it comes to driving dynamics.
SUV's? LOL! X5M/X6M or even the 5.0 are simply on a different planet. Frick, my diesel will out handle anything Lexus has.
GT cars? Hmmm....650 coupe OR convertible....or M6. Lexus' answer?
Small coupes/verts. 1M. Lexus' answer?
Flagships. B7....or I have something that will run circles around an LS....lol.
Picking one car....at the bottom of a model line up....and then touting some big "win" is a lame attempt to beat one's chest over nothing.
This is the kind of fanboi thread that I'm used to seeing on the BMW forums.
Big frickin' deal the 535 is a floaty ride that is sufficient, but doesn't target the enthusiast. Run the 550 and see how things turn out...or better yet the M5....lol.
Yes, BMW doesn't have an answer to the LF A (and never has) and the IS F stacks up nicely against the M3, but after that it's a complete joke. You can run down just about every segment and there is no answer from Lexus when it comes to driving dynamics.
SUV's? LOL! X5M/X6M or even the 5.0 are simply on a different planet. Frick, my diesel will out handle anything Lexus has.
GT cars? Hmmm....650 coupe OR convertible....or M6. Lexus' answer?
Small coupes/verts. 1M. Lexus' answer?
Flagships. B7....or I have something that will run circles around an LS....lol.
Picking one car....at the bottom of a model line up....and then touting some big "win" is a lame attempt to beat one's chest over nothing.
This is the kind of fanboi thread that I'm used to seeing on the BMW forums.
Lexus still has plenty of catching up to do which we've discussed in almost countless threads it seems in just the past month.
M5 is still a force to be reckoned with (I myself would prefer the XFR), but the fact that it uses a soundtrack to pump an engine/exhaust note through the speakers is atrocious. Shame on you BMW.
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From: MD
Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc.
First post here. As a former 550xi owner, I was curious when I read the Lexus GS F ad in Road & Track and how it beat the 535i in a series of performance tests. So I visited Lexus' website, but didn't see a full set of test data, just a few videos. Naturally I went to Google to search and still all I found was a couple of videos. This thread also showed up in the search and yet again, only a couple of videos - no comprehensive test results showing all of the results. So I went to the AMCI Testing website where they talked about a long history of testing for the manufacturers, but again no test data. I kept searching until I found an article which talked about one of Lexus' marketing firms: www.amcimarketing.com. I followed the link which redirected me to AMCI (Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc.) Global, which is the same AMCI that conducted the testing. The Lexus GS F can win in a fair fight (i.e. Motortrend's comparo), but I'm not so sure that AMCI gave us impartial results. Is Lexus doing something fishy by using their marketing firm to do comparos? Why not brag they won an unquestionably impartial MT comparo instead? 
First post here. As a former 550xi owner, I was curious when I read the Lexus GS F ad in Road & Track and how it beat the 535i in a series of performance tests. So I visited Lexus' website, but didn't see a full set of test data, just a few videos. Naturally I went to Google to search and still all I found was a couple of videos. This thread also showed up in the search and yet again, only a couple of videos - no comprehensive test results showing all of the results. So I went to the AMCI Testing website where they talked about a long history of testing for the manufacturers, but again no test data. I kept searching until I found an article which talked about one of Lexus' marketing firms: www.amcimarketing.com. I followed the link which redirected me to AMCI (Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc.) Global, which is the same AMCI that conducted the testing. The Lexus GS F can win in a fair fight (i.e. Motortrend's comparo), but I'm not so sure that AMCI gave us impartial results. Is Lexus doing something fishy by using their marketing firm to do comparos? Why not brag they won an unquestionably impartial MT comparo instead?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1rb65mX3O
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
Guess what.....
BMW 550i
Braking 60-0mph 116ft
Lateral acceleration (cornering) 0.86g
Figure 8 slalom 26.1 sec@ 0.70g
Lexus GS350 F-Sport
Braking 60-0mph 110ft
Lateral acceleration (cornering) 0.94g
Figure 8 slalom 25.4 sec@0.71g
If anything, the 550i, with its heavy V8 engine weighing down its nose, did even worse than the 535i in terms of handling.
Links :
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...i/viewall.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...s/viewall.html
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From: MD
Last edited by dunderhi; Mar 24, 2013 at 07:38 AM.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
Edmunds tested the 2013 M5 and the 2013 GS350 F-Sport on its slalom :
2013 M5 slalom speed : 68.9mph
2013 GS350 F-Sport slalom speed : 69.7mph
Links :
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m5/2013/road-test.html
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-350/2013/road-test.html
Keep in mind the M5 has > 500hp compared to the GS350's 306hp and it is supposedly a full fledged super sedan,BMW's crown jewel while the GS350 F-Sport is just a sport suspension equipped Lexus family sedan.
Incidentally, a car company is defined by its bread and butter cars. In the past, BMW built is reputation for handling not based on its rare M3s or M5s but on how well its base 3 and 5 series drove --- cars that were relatively affordable and accessible by Joe Public. It is only fair that modern-day BMW should be judged on how well its current base 3( F30) and 5 ( F10)series drives.
And from the looks of latest reviews and handling numbers , even the new BMW M5 is no longer as dynamic or exciting to drive.
Last edited by natnut; Mar 24, 2013 at 08:25 AM.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: MD
You might not like the answer.
Edmunds tested the 2013 M5 and the 2013 GS350 F-Sport on its slalom :
2013 M5 slalom speed : 68.9mph
2013 GS350 F-Sport slalom speed : 69.7mph
Links :
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m5/2013/road-test.html
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-350/2013/road-test.html
Keep in mind the M5 has > 500hp compared to the GS350's 306hp and it is supposedly a full fledged super sedan,BMW's crown jewel while the GS350 F-Sport is just a sport suspension equipped Lexus family sedan.
Incidentally, a car company is defined by its bread and butter cars. In the past, BMW built is reputation for handling not based on its rare M3s or M5s but on how well its base 3 and 5 series drove --- cars that were relatively affordable and accessible by Joe Public. It is only fair that modern-day BMW should be judged on how well its current base 3( F30) and 5 ( F10)series drives.
And from the looks of latest reviews and handling numbers , even the new BMW M5 is no longer as dynamic or exciting to drive.
Edmunds tested the 2013 M5 and the 2013 GS350 F-Sport on its slalom :
2013 M5 slalom speed : 68.9mph
2013 GS350 F-Sport slalom speed : 69.7mph
Links :
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m5/2013/road-test.html
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-350/2013/road-test.html
Keep in mind the M5 has > 500hp compared to the GS350's 306hp and it is supposedly a full fledged super sedan,BMW's crown jewel while the GS350 F-Sport is just a sport suspension equipped Lexus family sedan.
Incidentally, a car company is defined by its bread and butter cars. In the past, BMW built is reputation for handling not based on its rare M3s or M5s but on how well its base 3 and 5 series drove --- cars that were relatively affordable and accessible by Joe Public. It is only fair that modern-day BMW should be judged on how well its current base 3( F30) and 5 ( F10)series drives.
And from the looks of latest reviews and handling numbers , even the new BMW M5 is no longer as dynamic or exciting to drive.
You mention the the GS F is a sport suspension equipped family sedan which is an interesting point. The MSport is an appearance package that did not come with any type sport suspension as part of that package in 2012. It would have been nice to see a fully documented test from AMCI which showed how the cars were equipped. From what I have seen, the 2012 MSport package without the Dynamic Handling Package actually hurts performance. In 2013, BMW added Sport suspension to the MSport package. I wonder why they didn't compare a 2013 535 MSport.
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From: Canuckistan
Haha...thread title fail.
Big frickin' deal the 535 is a floaty ride that is sufficient, but doesn't target the enthusiast. Run the 550 and see how things turn out...or better yet the M5....lol.
Yes, BMW doesn't have an answer to the LF A (and never has) and the IS F stacks up nicely against the M3, but after that it's a complete joke. You can run down just about every segment and there is no answer from Lexus when it comes to driving dynamics.
SUV's? LOL! X5M/X6M or even the 5.0 are simply on a different planet. Frick, my diesel will out handle anything Lexus has.
GT cars? Hmmm....650 coupe OR convertible....or M6. Lexus' answer?
Small coupes/verts. 1M. Lexus' answer?
Flagships. B7....or I have something that will run circles around an LS....lol.
Picking one car....at the bottom of a model line up....and then touting some big "win" is a lame attempt to beat one's chest over nothing.
This is the kind of fanboi thread that I'm used to seeing on the BMW forums.
Big frickin' deal the 535 is a floaty ride that is sufficient, but doesn't target the enthusiast. Run the 550 and see how things turn out...or better yet the M5....lol.
Yes, BMW doesn't have an answer to the LF A (and never has) and the IS F stacks up nicely against the M3, but after that it's a complete joke. You can run down just about every segment and there is no answer from Lexus when it comes to driving dynamics.
SUV's? LOL! X5M/X6M or even the 5.0 are simply on a different planet. Frick, my diesel will out handle anything Lexus has.
GT cars? Hmmm....650 coupe OR convertible....or M6. Lexus' answer?
Small coupes/verts. 1M. Lexus' answer?
Flagships. B7....or I have something that will run circles around an LS....lol.
Picking one car....at the bottom of a model line up....and then touting some big "win" is a lame attempt to beat one's chest over nothing.
This is the kind of fanboi thread that I'm used to seeing on the BMW forums.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,602
Likes: 89
From: Singapore
You mention the the GS F is a sport suspension equipped family sedan which is an interesting point. The MSport is an appearance package that did not come with any type sport suspension as part of that package in 2012. It would have been nice to see a fully documented test from AMCI which showed how the cars were equipped. From what I have seen, the 2012 MSport package without the Dynamic Handling Package actually hurts performance. In 2013, BMW added Sport suspension to the MSport package. I wonder why they didn't compare a 2013 535 MSport.
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From: MD
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,240
Likes: 274
There was no such thing as a full MSport suspension package in 2012. There was a seperate Dynamic Handling Package unrelated to the MSport appearance package just like the integral active steering (which most testers don't like), but details like this is why I started my search to learn more about the testing. If the GS F beat the 535i fair and square, then good on Lexus, but so far all I'm finding is a lack in details and the potential for something fishy. Not hard at all to compare two similiarly euipped 2013 models, but for some reason AMCI (Lexus) chose otherwise. The 2013 535i went on sale in March of 2012, so I don't see any legitimate reason not to use one in testing that ocurred probably a good six months later.
Maybe you should drive both cars and let us know what you think? That seems like the best choice instead of spending efforts here on not trusting the media (I dont trust them either but here we have test data from several sources).
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From: MD
i think people posted links to mags doing testing few posts above, so whats the problem? Dont trust Edmunds, dont trust Motortrend, dont trust this ACMI whatever it is? M5 vs GS350 is not fair compare for M5? Thats funny.
Maybe you should drive both cars and let us know what you think? That seems like the best choice instead of spending efforts here on not trusting the media (I dont trust them either but here we have test data from several sources).
Maybe you should drive both cars and let us know what you think? That seems like the best choice instead of spending efforts here on not trusting the media (I dont trust them either but here we have test data from several sources).
I have never made any comment about MT or Edmunds test results other than to call MT's results impartial. I even stated the importance of the slalom in real world conditions which as it was pointed out the GS F performed better than the M5. So, I'm not sure what your issues are with me, I'm just trying to find out the truth behind Lexus' current advertising campaign and so far a AMCI is concerned, it looks to be a marketing effort paid for by Lexus. I haven't stated that any BMW 5 Series is better than any Lexus GS, so again I'm not sure why you are blaming me for anything. This is kind of sad.
Here's a link, so I can get some credit: Lexus flexes brand at AMCI event
Anyway, concerning test drives, I'm not in the 300hp sedan market, so it would be pointless for me to waste two sales guys time test driving the cars, just so I can share a conclusion which would be revered by one camp and despised by the other
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I have never made any comment about MT or Edmunds test results other than to call MT's results impartial. I even stated the importance of the slalom in real world conditions which as it was pointed out the GS F performed better than the M5. So, I'm not sure what your issues are with me, I'm just trying to find out the truth behind Lexus' current advertising campaign and so far a AMCI is concerned, it looks to be a marketing effort paid for by Lexus.
I am trying to figure out whats the problem here. Obviously GS marketing is GS marketing and paid by Lexus who makes and sells GS. Lexus has to pay for any marketing materials be it independent testing lab or Motortrend.
Question here is if the message being sent is real or fake, right? So we check on Edmunds and Motortrend which we can correlate this with and they have same results.
So what exactly is the issue? AMCI claims are pretty much the same as what Edmunds and Motortrend have shown to us already, so I dont understand your point?
I am not sure why are you confused about anything I wrote. Apparently you think it is ok for GS350 to beat M5 in handling since M5 is built for Nurburgring and I find that funny.
Do you think that there is some 535i package that actually handles better than M5? And thus AMCI made some kind of package selection that hurts 535i handling? I mean it is kind of silly to question AMCI because every other magazine tells us same exact thing, so lets question Motortrend and Edmunds and every other mag that stated the same?
And reason I am saying drive it yourself is because pretty much everyone around here, and plenty are BMW owners, have said exactly the same thing when it comes to handling.
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These are sport sedans and sold as such. Once again, pretty funny that apparently it doesnt matter anymore.