I rather like the car, it is clearly not on the same playing field as the GS or LS and ES does not compete with BMW or MB.

The ES competes with the Acura RL, Cadillac XTS, and the Hyundai Genesis 3.8. It also somewhat comepetes with the Buick Lacrosse but I do not consider Buick luxury or even a near-luxuury nameplate.

Now, my biggest issue with the ES is the faux leather and lack of heated seats being standard, in contrast the Avalon sports real leather and heated seats. I simply cannot get over this issue.

 

Not price-wise....the RL (now RLX) and XTS are both substantially higher-priced cars than the typical ES. The Genesis 3.8....yes, that's a little closer.

Buick does target Lexus in much of its advertising, but I'd agree that, overall, Cadillac is more of a direct Lexus competitor. However, the differences between an ES and Lacrosse, especially in price and interior opulence, aren't as large as some people think. And the Lacrosse, IMO, actually has better chassis-engineering, and a a better ride/handling balance, than the new 6Gen ES. Where Lexus is clearly superior to Buick is in paintwork and in the general overall long-term reliability of its products.

If the new ES uses the same NuLuxe imitation leather as the CT does (clearly one of the CT's best features), check it out. I don't think you will be disappointed with the upholstery, at least.

 

Yes, Lexus should cancel the ES if they don't like money. All the issues aside, the ES is still a marketshare / cash cow for them.

 

[QUOTE=LexsCTJill;7939442]I rather like the car, it is clearly not on the same playing field as the GS or LS and ES does not compete with BMW or MB.

The ES competes with the Acura RL, Cadillac XTS, and the Hyundai Genesis 3.8. It also somewhat comepetes with the Buick Lacrosse but I do not consider Buick luxury or even a near-luxuury nameplate.

Now, my biggest issue with the ES is the faux leather and lack of heated seats being standard, in contrast the Avalon sports real leather and heated seats. I simply cannot get over this issue.[/QUOTE]

Way to compare a premium upgraded model of Toyota with the base model of Lexus, coming from someone that claims they "lease" one with the same "lowly" faux leather in their car.

 

[quote=My0gr81;7939781]The base model Avalon has standard leather and heated seats

 

I wouldn't pay too much emphasis on the price, the RLX, ES, and XTS are all front wheel drive, five passenger sedans that have ballpark dimensions that are similar. The wheelbase for all three are similar.

Cadillac and Lexus in this segment does not really compete with MB or BMW and Audi.

As for Buick, its cute that GM targets Lexus, however the Toyota Avalon is the real competitor for Buick.

 

The new 4Gen Avalon, IMO, especially the top-line Limited model, could easily pass for a Lexus. In fact, as I've mentioned in other posts, I was more impressed with it than with the new Lexus ES (some auto-magazines also agree with me). The only thing I'd do with it is soften the shock/spring rates a little and put the softer-riding tires back on it that previous generations had.....it has simply been made too stiff this year. But that's only my opinion............and, opinion or not, it seems to be selling well , even with the new firmer underpinnings.

 

But its not a Lexus, it is a Toyota it is Toyotas Japanese Buick.


Plus it does not have the styling cues to pass for a Lexus, you might see them, but I sure don't.

 

Yawn...

There was much yapping on here about Buick and Genesis, and how they were going to overtake the ES, blah blah blah.

Seems everyone forgot about those, and ES is marching on, stronger than ever. So now teh internetz are going to fart about the XTS and bark at the ES, and the big L will continue to laugh at them.

 

folks, it's clear lexus is not going to cancel the ES so i'm not sure where this thread is going except continually off course in various directions.

LexsCTJill - the newest ES is made using the Avalon platform so it has nothing to do with the Camry, so please stop.

the FIRST ES (250) was pretty much a joke, simply allowing lexus to be launched as a brand with more than one model. but that was fairly quickly remedied with the wonderful ES300 - a new benchmark.

lexus has had tremendous success at TARGETING markets in a way that's DIFFERENT to the German brands. the ES and RX in particular, were bulls-eye hits into untapped markets. that was a truly outstanding achievement! are the ES or RX for everyone? are they heart-stopping ultimate driving machines or anything like that? no, but the BUYERS don't care. they continue to buy/lease as these vehicles suit their needs/wants pretty perfectly. might some buyers think an avalon is a better 'value' than an ES? maybe, but then maybe they don't mind going to a toyota dealer after, which will definitely be a 'different' experience than the lexus dealership.

anyway, bottom line, lexus isn't cancelling then ES, so perhaps this thread is done.

 

/thread....there used to be some good conversation....this thread is a big joke. It is eye opening though, in a sad way.

In the past 24 hours Ive read here that hitting 50% of your sales goal is fine and Lexus should cancel their best selling sedan and the best selling Asian luxury car just because they think so.

You cannot make this up.

 

I have had no shortage of harsh words for the new ES, but I have to address this.

As someone who drove the ES for many years, and who works in an industry where many people drive luxury sedans and we've discussed what else they've shopped, they come to me for advice because they know I know a lot about cars and leasing. I can tell you this is not true.

I shopped the ES alongside BMW, MB & Audi each time I bought one. Those brands sell an entry level vehicle right in the ES' price point, and cheaper by the way. Their offering is just smaller and sportier than the ES which did not appeal to me. I also considered going to a 5, E or GS in 2010 when I got my last ES, and obviously made that jump in 2013. I have numerous coworkers who have the ES and came from the BMW 5. I have numerous coworkers who had midlevel luxury sedans like the E, 5 & GS that also shopped the ES. To me the best thing about the ES was you got a 5 series, E class sized car for 3 series, E class money, its VERY popular in my industry, and its popular amongst people that make dazzling incomes believe it or not. I know people who have the ES that make over $700k per year.

Having gone from an ES to the GS...sure the GS is more car with more solidity, better materials, a more premium feel, but that doesn't make the ES a "mainstream" car. Had they not made the interior material decisions in the ES I would not have upgraded...and I can afford a car well more expensive than the GS.

Also, as pertains to the CT, I would not at all lump the ES, RX and CT in together. I recently had a CT as a loaner and it was the first Lexus I had driven that I truly hated. Terrible materials, rattle-can Civic ride, awful. The ES and RX are very nice, smooth riding, well built vehicles. I also know tons of very affluent people who have an RX in the family...its a luxury SUV that competes directly with offerings from other luxury car companies.

Don't make assumptions.

 

a big joke, huh? you're tied as the largest contributor in this thread. just saying. if it's a 'big joke', i guess you participate for the humor.

 

To be fair though, the posts are from the time when it was a good conversation

 

Excuse this Lexus owner and person who continues to help the forum in various avenues to try to keep things partially sane here. This thread is a joke for the most part and thank goodness myself and others are trying to sort facts from opinions and just plain crap.

Lexus just stated the ES production is moving here so those stating the ES should be canceled clearly don't have supporters in Lexus. The car continues.