Exactly....

 

My point is since I'm only going to own it for 3-5 years, why do I care?

I think thats your loss. We LOVE our Jeep, and I've owned Toyotas since 1998 and nothing but Toyotas since 2003. I would never buy any current Toyota or Honda SUV over our Jeep.

 

I leased my CT, it is up for renewal in June, I am going to buy a Toyota truck or maybe an SUV. The Jeep has no chance at even being considered or test driven, none whatsoever regardless if I am going to keep in 3, 5, or more years.

 

My daughter has a black on black well equipped leather,NAV,V6 '12 Jeep Cherokee.
Nice smooth ride quality,no rattles and no problems.
It's a very nice truck that I believe is on a Benz platform.I wouldn't mind owning one for 3-5 years.
Would easily be my choice for a larger SUV.
The '14 is gorgeous.

 

Correct, should have listed both Camry and Avalon as the basis and both are excellent vehicles. Lexus really did their homework on price/feature/size for the ES and grew that market. Studies show humans are getting bigger and Toyota responded.

It is fair to be a little critical of the ES in terms of heritage and drive layout (front vs rear) compared to the flagship and other premium Euro brands but in reality the market just wanted a much lower cost lux that was better than the Toyota line up.

As far as fewer Lexus Dealerships vs Toyota footprint is concerned I was informed by our local Toyota center they can service ANY Lexus model but cannot perform warranty work. That should help value minded owners, either new or off lease consider Lexus as a viable option. Not necessarily the best marketing strategy to try and mix the product lines but good to know.

 

Am I the only one here not equating luxury (or near luxury) with chassis design? While performance is generally enhanced with rear-wheel drive, luxury is composed of varied factors. Buyers seeking a luxury/performance $60K+ vehicle wouldn't cross-shop an ES or similar. I don't have a preference for either format in a near-luxury sedan, but I do know the difference!

OTOH, there is a demographic of consumer who can easily afford more but is committed to a value transaction that is nicely matched by the ES. Many of us are quite willing to make the gentle compromise that frees funds for alternative use.

 

Plus, the new ES has been on the market a few months longer than the Avalon and sales of the Lexus may have peaked a bit since launch. The Avalon is still more in the "new" phase. In another 6 months or so there will be a better picture of how both will sell in the long term. My guess is they will still be close in sales.

 

Let me explain that its a talking point b/c people simply hate Lexus and the Camry and Toyota so anything remotely related to it must suck, especially on the internet. Mind you a 70 Audi TT RS is based on a VW Golf but gets a lovely internet pass.

I'm learning to ignore it, its taking me 12 years here and I still need work The ES is BY FAR the best selling Asian luxury car and any brand would love to have it. Look how Acura ****ed up the TL which used to sell and be as well received as the ES.

But its hard to ignore when its repeated all over especially here when such regurgitation should be frowned upon.

 

The ES exists because there is a huge demongraphic that can afford a top end Toyota or an higher priced entry level Lexus. Like the CT, and RX, this segment of Lexus is completely different than the rest of Lexus and really does not compete with BMW or MB and Audi.

Lexus really has two different tiers, the CT, ES, and RX compete with top end mainstream brands while GS and the rest compete with more exclusive luxury brands.

I would not call the ES or CT and RX luxury cars, there are in reality very high end Toyotas and entry level or near luxury cars.

 

^^ just stop .... Please ... Way to offend all those owners here with that gem

 

Here is the thing, the ES, and RX really have no MB, Audi or BMW competitor. The magazines frequently compare the ES and RX to Hyundai.

RX and ES compete with Cadillacs lower end and the Acura RL and MDX.

 

No your not. The truth is the ES is a lux base vehicle that has excellent ride qualities that meet the market needs and more. Plus all the necessary features and materials.

However the euro's essentially dictated the LUX line as rear drive via strong marketing and extended wheelbase. The press got on board and are still there today. Essentially the press just joked about the STS Cadillac for years..."just not a serious LUX..with front drive...blah... blah"

 

I can see that could offend 90% of Lexus owners. When Lexus first arrived to the scene there was the LS 400 and ES 250. The LS was and is close to perfection. The ES has survived the Infiniti I30/I35 and sells very well and has come a very long way.

Back in 1996 I purchased an ES 300 and drove it to over 400,000 miles and I know I could have gone much further if I didn't get rear-ended.

As for the CT, what about the Audi A3, Mercedes A Class, are those very high end Volkswagens or near luxury cars?

As for the RX it was a pioneer of the CUV and most luxury automakers would love to have a model like the RX that outsells some car brands.

 

No trying to offend anyone, but it is pretty obvious that the ES was a upscale Camry and the newer one is clearly an Avalon based model. The GS,LS and IS are stand alone models.

 

Obvious to people that continue to bash the car. All the expert reviews haven't made any mention of how poor they allegedly are.