not to mention, they look almost the same size... Gs looking little bit more sporty.

http://lexus.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/le...b=measurements

 

the ES is FWD and the GS is RWD so that's one giant difference.
GS offered in AWD and hybrid versions.

but i'm not a 3GS fan and in support of what you're saying, the GS is a pretty bland and not very sporty or roomy sedan, and the ES is a very bland, not sporty at all, but fairly roomy sedan. so if someone wants bland and not very exciting but smooth and comfy, the ES is a better deal.

 

Feature rich versus bland and roomy, a thrill a minute....

 

i think most of us are spoiled when talking about cars, I think the mass public agree both the Es and Gs are great looking cars. Es is more practical for obvious reasons.

 

Good point, just look at some of the cars in the personal fleets of many posters here. Some very cool cars.

 

Two different cars, two different markets.

I've had older German cars in the past. Great handling, fun to drive, mechanically a nightmare. Their quality is improving, but looking at the Consumer Reports lists of recommended used cars, practically everything Lexus has ever made shows up. Looking at their lists of NOT recommended used cars, there is an extensive list of BMW and Mercedes products - and not a single Lexus.

I loved the late 90s E-class when it came out. Unbelievable car. But before I got my LS, I briefly looked at how they were doing nowadays, and people were getting hit with $1000 and $2000 repair bills for the weirdest stuff - like suspension mounts failing. Eek.

If I were buying new, and trading in before the warranty expired, I'd be tempted to give M-B a chance. I drove one on the Autobahn while in Germany and it handles great at any speed. But I buy used cars... and a ten-year-old Mercedes? Thanks, but I'll pass.

PS: For what it's worth, I drove a few miles in an E63. Awesome power, but mated to a really slow transmission that takes away much of the fun. I'd rather have a full-throttle run in my LS, actually, despite the horsepower disadvantage - it just works as a unit. Actually, that's a good summary of why I got a Lexus instead of an M-B: it all just works.

 

lexus should be more creative with the exterior design of the GS, and make it look drastically different from the rest of the lineup. there should be an AMG appearance package for the GS

even the Altima has more sheetmetal creases than the GS

the GS should look cool without a bodykit. That would save everyone from spending thousands of bucks on a bodykit too

 

true yet they both are mid sized luxury sedans and made by the same company and sell side by side?

What if bmw made the 3 series the size of 5 or audi made a4 the size of the a6 and mercedes the c class the size of the e if price did not change on the 3, a4, and c. Can you see how that would make a sales issue, thats basicly what lexus is doing having 2 sedans in the same segmant. the es being fwd and not having a awd and hybrid option is trivial. it is still no matter how you try to call it a mid sized luxury sedan like the gs.

 

maybe because the e63 was in comfort mode and you did not know about sport. most journalists praise the 7spd tranny

 

Lexus is certainly not going to stop making the ES especially just because the slow/mediocre selling GS may be losing sales to it. That would be like Acura not making the TL because it steals sales from the RL or Infiniti not making the G35/37 because it steals sales from the M. The ES makes up the bulk of Lexus sales along with the RX and there is no way they are going to mess with that winning formula. The GS has never really been a great seller especially the new one when comparing it the ES or E class/5 series so if Lexus was going to drop a car it would be the GS well before the ES. Your right the ES does eat into the GS sales as it offers pretty much the same features, the ES is roomier, the ES is arguably a nicer looking car, and the ES is much less expensive but they are still sales for Lexus so I don't see the issue. The current GS just does not offer enough over the similar sized ES to warrant spending the extra money for it and that is one of its main problems now.

The main problems with the GS is its bland looks, not being really sporty, engaging, or handling well even though it rides pretty rough, poor headroom, not very roomy, not really offering anything over the competition except for reliability and lower price and even reliability/build quality has fallen off big time for the 3rd Gen GS, and the ES seems to offer everything the GS has besides rwd and a v8 option. The 3rd Gen GS just does not have the allure the 2nd Gen had and it does not get much recognition and often does pretty poorly in comparisons.

I really hope Lexus has learned some lessons with the 3rd Gen GS and makes it stand out again and something people will actually talk about and be really enthusiastic for and they need to improve build quality, interior materials, and reliability for the 4th Generation.

As for the E class having more features then an LS460, I don't care if it has all these features if a few years down the line they constantly need to be replaced or fixed and many of those wonderful features will leave you stranded on the side of the road when they don't work right. Mercedes should be more concerned with making their cars more reliable and stopping this trend of them being known for always needing to be in the shop before putting out a ton more features most people will never use and will probably break. I am not feeling the new E class interior and find the current one nicer looking but hopefully the quality is up on the new one. The exterior looks nice except for the Hyundai rear but it may look better in real life.

 

In short the new E will easily outsell the GS (as did the old E), but that's not saying much. Let's hope Mercedes continues with improving reliability on new models (such as done with C-class).

 

Well, I have no problem with ES. All I was saying is that, both GS and ES are of the same class (size). Just think about it from a different perspective. What if MB will start making a car similar to an E-class, same size and same options, but $10,000 cheaper. Which would you choose? I'm sure many customers would go with the 2nd choice and buy a cheaper version. Will that hurt the E-class? It sure will, which is why there is no car of the same class similar to E. Samething with BMW, there is only one 5 series. Like I said before, you remove ES and GS sales will go up.

 

The Mercedes-Benz E-Class has been recognized as the premier vehicle in its segment, receiving the J.D. Power and Associates 2008 Initial Quality Study (IQS) award for "Highest Ranked Midsize Premium Car in a Tie." The Mercedes-Benz E-Class: uncompromising performance, safety, and luxury.

Mercedes-Benz E-Class received the lowest number of problems per 100 vehicles among midsize premium cars in the proprietary J.D. Power and Associates 2007-2008 Initial Quality StudySM, tied in 2008. 2008 study based on responses from 81,530 new-vehicle owners, measuring 344 models and measures opinions after 90 days of ownership. Proprietary study results are based on experiences and perceptions of owners surveyed in February-April 2008. Your experiences may vary. Visit jdpower.com.

 

initial quality studies are a crock.

i don't know a single car make that breaks down within the first 90 days of ownership.

even the old 1988 hyundai excel was pretty reliable the first 90 days

 

The ES was made and sold before the GS and was 1 of the 2 first cars Lexus started out with so it has more history and more of a following as well as much better sales then the GS. It is not like Lexus made the ES after the GS was selling very well and had a huge following. If Lexus removes the ES sales may go up a little for the GS but they are going to lose tons of sales and ES customers who don't want to pay or can't afford to pay 10K extra for a car with pretty much the same features and less interior room. Many ES buyers also do not want a rwd car as they don't want to drive a rwd car in the snow/winter. Most ES drivers and actually many GS could care less it is rwd and supposed to be the better drivers car and there is only so much people will pay extra for that. Those buyers who cannot afford to step up to a GS are not going to go for a IS either as it is too small and has a useless rear seat so they are going to move to a different brand which Lexus does not want. By dropping the ES Lexus is going to lose tons of sales and customers and profit just to maybe get a small bump in GS sales and it makes no sense for them to do that. Mercedes is different from Lexus in that they don't share platforms, parts, drivetrains with a company like Toyota and benefit from having a car like the ES share with the Camry and offer a vehicle for a new range/group of buyers. If Mercedes could offer a car like a ES and get the sales a ES gets I am sure they would do it even if it ate into some E class sales.

The ES always was very different then then GS in looks, interior, drive but now with the current generations they are far more similar which is posing a problem for the GS but has not really hurt ES sales much.

Lexus should and needs to improve and differentiate the GS from the ES to where people will feel spending the extra money is worth it over the ES and people who chose a Infiniti M, E class, 5 series, etc will find the GS appealing enough to switch, right now that is not the case and why the GS does not sell well, get much attention, or does that well in comparisons.