Self-Driving Vehicles
Yes, the fact that one poster on here called her an "ape" is troubling. Another has said that she had previous criminal issues w/o mentioning Uber's "second chance" program. There is absolute liability which Uber is going to bury in a civil settlement. Herzberg's friends have called on the AZ governor to stop all Uber tests in this jurisdiction. It is likely that Rafaela is essentially fired for being a distracted driver and not performing her job according to guidelines.
With this being said, this is why I so passionately despise these autonomous and semi autonomous driving systems. They aren't reliable, yet they encourage the driver not to pay attention.
Lexus Champion
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From: RightHere
Being fired is going to be the least of her problems. At least in NYC she would be charged with automotive manslaughter and most likely do prison time.
With this being said, this is why I so passionately despise these autonomous and semi autonomous driving systems. They aren't reliable, yet they encourage the driver not to pay attention.
With this being said, this is why I so passionately despise these autonomous and semi autonomous driving systems. They aren't reliable, yet they encourage the driver not to pay attention.
Last edited by MattyG; Mar 22, 2018 at 06:47 PM.
The Tempe Police chief said that they were not ruling out charges against the driver. It's likely that they are studying Uber's in-vehicle video and whatever data they can get a hold of, to see if this safety driver was doing the job that Uber hired her to do or if she was a distracted driver. But yeah, it's AZ jurisdiction vs NYC. She was the classic distracted driver who did not look up and actually looked down at the worst moment.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Mar 2018
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From: MA
The rumors that she jumped out in front of the car and the accident was likely unavoidable are totally false based on the footage, it was the vehicles/software's fault, it did not work properly. In that situation a human driver would likely slow down and be prepared to slam on the brakes/drive more cautiously and would likely see and avoid the collusion or at least would have braked hard to reduce the severity where the computer simply kept the car going at full speed and did not even brake when a collision with a human was clearly evident. I really don't want big rigs with this flawed technology on the road let alone passenger cars everywhere.
Lexus Champion
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From: CA
^^ Much continuing confusion around this for some reason... but in the video you posted the location of where the collision happened is at approx 34 seconds - not where the poster assumes it happened (@ 2:06, "where the news lady was") - not accurate. The video released by uber is included below - it starts right after the vehicle has emerged from under a bridge, as all the light strings come to an end - you can plainly tell where the collision happens (interior and exterior) - see screen captures and details in post 712.
Lexus Champion
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From: RightHere
From the NYT latest. Full article is on their website, but the gist of it is here.
Source
SAN FRANCISCO — Uber’s robotic vehicle project was not living up to expectations months before a self-driving car operated by the company struck and killed a woman in Tempe, Ariz.The cars were having trouble driving through construction zones and next to tall vehicles, like big rigs.
And Uber’s human drivers had to intervene far more frequently than the drivers of competing autonomous car projects. Waymo, formerly the self-driving car project of Google, said that in tests on roads in California last year, its cars went an average of nearly 5,600 miles before the driver had to take control from the computer to steer out of trouble.
As of March, Uber was struggling to meet its target of 13 miles per “intervention” in Arizona, according to 100 pages of company documents obtained by The New York Times and two people familiar with the company’s operations in the Phoenix area but not permitted to speak publicly about it. Yet Uber’s test drivers were being asked to do more — going on solo runs when they had worked in pairs.
And Uber’s human drivers had to intervene far more frequently than the drivers of competing autonomous car projects. Waymo, formerly the self-driving car project of Google, said that in tests on roads in California last year, its cars went an average of nearly 5,600 miles before the driver had to take control from the computer to steer out of trouble.
As of March, Uber was struggling to meet its target of 13 miles per “intervention” in Arizona, according to 100 pages of company documents obtained by The New York Times and two people familiar with the company’s operations in the Phoenix area but not permitted to speak publicly about it. Yet Uber’s test drivers were being asked to do more — going on solo runs when they had worked in pairs.
the video recording camera doesn't have enough dynamic range, so the video depicts pitch blackness.
but I'm sure a human would have seen the road much better just from ambient light.
Also, bmw and merc night vision would have allowed a human to see a person or animal crossing
but I'm sure a human would have seen the road much better just from ambient light.
Also, bmw and merc night vision would have allowed a human to see a person or animal crossing
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All the trashing of self driving cars is predictable but is overlooking the fatally bad decision the victim made. It's easy to say a human would have reacted perfectly... i guess that's why cars driven by people hit deer and people every day. 
Very sad for the victiim and her loved ones but this will be settled and progress will continue.
Very sad for the victiim and her loved ones but this will be settled and progress will continue.
Lexus Test Driver
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From: CA
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
All the trashing of self driving cars is predictable but is overlooking the fatally bad decision the victim made. It's easy to say a human would have reacted perfectly... i guess that's why cars driven by people hit deer and people every day.
Very sad for the victiim and her loved ones but this will be settled and progress will continue.
Very sad for the victiim and her loved ones but this will be settled and progress will continue.
I really hope this kills their autonomous program so no others get hurt. Uber should just let the big boys handle it.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: CA
Interesting stat in a Bloomberg article I read about the AZ uber incident...
The Bloomberg stat is not sourced in the article so not sure how to vet - but it got me searching, and according to this wiki page (deaths per traveled distance data sourced from 2011 car and driver article), in 2009 there were 45 traffic related deaths per billion miles driven - billion - dayum - and this was as of 2009, so prior to many of the safety systems now standard in many cars. 2017 statistics from the US Department of Transportation lists fatalities at 1.18 per 100 million vehicle miles traveled (US DOT Oct 2017) - which tallies to 11.8 fatalities per billion vehicle miles traveled.? Also of interest, according the the US DOT "Quick Facts" data sheet, in 2016 there were 288 million registered vehicles in the US, with 37,461 total driving related fatalities, and 6,296,000 accidents reported in 2015.
Gotta say, if the bloomberg / wiki / US DOT stats are accurate, (especially regarding fatalities) human drivers aren't nearly as unsafe as made out to be. Seems to pretty much flatly refute the widely accepted premise that self-driving cars are sooo much safer than human drivers. Self-driving autonomy has a long way to go to match those stats.
For human driving in the U.S., there’s roughly one death every 86 million miles, while autonomous vehicles have driven no more than 15 to 20 million miles in the country so far, according to Morgan Stanley analysts.
Gotta say, if the bloomberg / wiki / US DOT stats are accurate, (especially regarding fatalities) human drivers aren't nearly as unsafe as made out to be. Seems to pretty much flatly refute the widely accepted premise that self-driving cars are sooo much safer than human drivers. Self-driving autonomy has a long way to go to match those stats.
Same deal for the electric cars - they are all using different charger system instead of adopting a common standard. You can't charge your Nissan Leaf at a Tesla charging station. This is beyond retarded, and going to be a major obstacle when it comes to widespread adaptation of electric vehicles.
It is actually quite revealing how these companies are competing and suing each other over autonomous driving patents, instead of trying to set a single standard. How are these autonomous cars are going to be able to communicate with each other if all of them have proprietary tech and software?
Same deal for the electric cars - they are all using different charger system instead of adopting a common standard. You can't charge your Nissan Leaf at a Tesla charging station. This is beyond retarded, and going to be a major obstacle when it comes to widespread adaptation of electric vehicles.
in time there will be alliances, mergers, reciprocal agreements, etc. i'm sure tesla wants to make money from the investment they made in superchargers all over, and perhaps eventually other electrics will be able to use them, for a price. but right now, the last thing tesla wants is for their owners to not be able to use the chargers because others with other brand cars are tying them up.
they don't need to communicate with each other especially since they will be co-existing with distracted human drivers for years.
it's not 'beyond retarded' it's called capitalism and competition, two things i know you hate. yeah we could wait for a government mandated charging standard and slow innovation for years. it's like saying the govt should ban apple's lightning connector because the rest of the world uses micro usb or usb-c now.
in time there will be alliances, mergers, reciprocal agreements, etc. i'm sure tesla wants to make money from the investment they made in superchargers all over, and perhaps eventually other electrics will be able to use them, for a price. but right now, the last thing tesla wants is for their owners to not be able to use the chargers because others with other brand cars are tying them up.
it's not 'beyond retarded' it's called capitalism and competition, two things i know you hate. yeah we could wait for a government mandated charging standard and slow innovation for years. it's like saying the govt should ban apple's lightning connector because the rest of the world uses micro usb or usb-c now.
in time there will be alliances, mergers, reciprocal agreements, etc. i'm sure tesla wants to make money from the investment they made in superchargers all over, and perhaps eventually other electrics will be able to use them, for a price. but right now, the last thing tesla wants is for their owners to not be able to use the chargers because others with other brand cars are tying them up.
maybe a self-driving car in nyc will have a way to make pedestrians get out of the way (noise, lights, pepper spray 
).
it's also possible that city cameras combined with facial recognition, phone tracking, etc., could make 'jay walking' an automatic pay for activity.
so each time you block traffic crossing the road when you're not supposed to the city just takes $25 out of your pocket. that 10 block walk could become expensive.
).it's also possible that city cameras combined with facial recognition, phone tracking, etc., could make 'jay walking' an automatic pay for activity.
so each time you block traffic crossing the road when you're not supposed to the city just takes $25 out of your pocket. that 10 block walk could become expensive.
forcing one electric car maker to give up its huge competitive advantage to others is quite different than taking steps to enforce laws, plus maybe you ignored my smiley faces.
but we're headed toward 'minority report' either way...
but we're headed toward 'minority report' either way...