Yeah, and extra 11 minute stop according to him, but he doesn't want to stop. And he doesn't want to adjust speed to possibly keep from stopping. And he doesn't want to adjust the amount of charge he has when he arrives because he wants to be able to ride around when he gets there without charging first.

It's true that they just don't work for some people, but this is clearly a case of something is very easily doable with just a very infrequent, very minor inconvenience.

 

Need vs want.

I need my Tundra to haul the things I do. We need the Sienna for space while on family road trips. My wife has an RX350 because she wants something smaller than the Sienna to buzz around town. The Sienna is getting a bit long in the tooth so we've been considering a new Sienna or Odyssey

Range.

Range really isn't an issue with the Tundra or RX because they're mostly local. Our Sienna gets about 26mpg on the highway x 20gal tank. New Sienna is advertised at 36mpg x 18gal tank. New Odyssey is advertised 28mpg highway x 19.5gal tank. We looked at the EV Volkswagen van "Buzz" a year ago. Range was advertised around 270 miles. An EV with 50% reduction in range for road trips? No thanks. Having to plan stops on road trips around limited recharging infrastructure plus charge times? No thanks. Heck, couldn't even drive the damn thing from Chattanooga to Atlanta and back without recharging or otherwise rolling back in town near zero charge. No thanks. Apparently, other potential buyers of the Buzz thought similarly because sales were few. ----- Lexus TZ estimated 300 mile range? From where I live to Vanderbilt in Nashville is 158 miles. Couldn't even make a round trip. And considering it's all 70+ mph highway, that 300 miles is likely to be 70-80% from what I have read = closer to 200 miles. No thanks. Heck, my 17mpg truck can make the round trip easy.

I like the idea of an EV in context of self sufficiency = charging at home with solar panels. There's nothing about road trips that fits.

 

The ABRP defaults made everything more of a challenge for Steve. For the Vistiq, the ABRP default values assume 5% degradation even on a new car, and the efficiency seems to be conservative. Taken together that’s ABRP assuming a significant range reduction before he even starts, and it makes the trip look harder than it probably is. As for the speed reduction, that’s just the smart way to do it. The goal is the shortest travel time. If you are assuming at least one stop, the goal is to make that stop as short as possible and do it while the battery is in its charging sweet spot. In other words, the maximum possible payload in the shortest possible time. The point is even a very minor speed reduction that is probably largely unnoticeable positively impacts efficiency and can further shorten the stop - and it can reduce total travel time to less than the total travel time had you driven faster. There are articles researching this and finding that sweet spot. The actuals are specific to each EV model, but the theory is directionally correct. The smart way usually wins out, and total trip times reduce. A few extra mph doesn’t necessarily get you there faster if you have to also factor in a stop.

 

Aggressive dealer mark ups were the big issue with the ID.Buzz, and the high MSRP relative to the fundamentals didn’t help. It took a model year off, and is coming back next year, supposedly with a better proposition.

 

The issue is you create these arguments you believe people are making in your own mind. Nobody here has been saying any of the things you’ve cooked up in your head.

You were pretty rigid and inflexible before you got your Tesla lol. Have a sense of humor about it. Plugging the car in at night isn’t even annoying you’re just too stubborn to admit that.

Remember that with the PHEV I already have most of the day to day benefits of an EV, so this is downside without all of the upside. We already hardly ever buy gas for that vehicle and we get to drive it around with the smooth quiet EV powertrain day to day.

It would work how I want it to work now…with 350-400 miles of range. THATS what frustrates me about the TZ, if it were just a little bit better vehicle it would work great. Toyota though hasn’t tried to be class leading in a decade plus though so it is what it is.

 

Several things can be true at the same time. Toyota is wise to call bs on other manufacturer's EV ambitions when many of them were pledging no more ICE by 2030, and are now scaling back after billions in losses. Toyota is also pragmatic, they are the leader in hybrid tech, and can certainly become leader by volume when the time is right.

 

Toyota was even further off base than the "no more ice by 2030" crew with their obsession over hydrogen. I don't have any faith in Toyota when it comes to BEVs. They haven't proven themselves very capable and put out some really bad products.

 

Really? I don't recall any obsession with hydrogen, they made a couple experimental models with so little publicity that hardly anyone even knew about them. They have been leading with hybrid and PHEV, this is a much larger share of market than BEVs.

For BEVs, clearly Toyota doesn't care enough about this market segment to bother and other automakers are losing billions by going all in on it. It is a convoluted segment that goes far beyond engineering a genuinely good EV, there are too many other factors to figure out - subsidies, carbon credits, federal and local tax rebates, all of which keep changing. And plus the EV market itself is small and tricky to market for. I've always said that EVs really only work for wealthy suburbanites, which is about 5-10% of population in the US, and less in other countries. These buyers want a certain degree of prestige, as well as strict requirements for range, tech, space, etc. Steve would be the prime example, and clearly Toyota has missed the mark with the TZ.

 

TMC was late to the party.
Give them another 3 years and I'm sure they'll catch up with long range.

 

given your wants, constraints and the trip details, and what you're "not interested in", an ev at this time is not going to work for you.

good idea, although the confirmation bias will be strong so you'll probably end up stopping twice each way, and your kids and dog will hate you so it will confirm what you've repeatedly said. not gunna work.

but feel free to make comments about which you don't know much about. specifically, since about 2023, tesla model 3 and y have been praised for dramatically better interior quality and quietness. are they 'plain' and i guess, sterile? sure, but the materials are nice. no hard surfaces either.

yeah, vw made a major gaffe with the buzz having so little range... unless it was just intended as a vehicle for partying from LA to santa monica beach and that's about it.

 

Toyota has put billions into hydrogen and publicly stated that it will be a big part of the future. They still try to push the Mirai (which stands for "future" in Japanese) on a market that clearly has ZERO interest. To me, that is a far bigger waste of money than money spent on BEVs. "No matter how much progress [battery-electric vehicles] make, I think they will still only have a 30 per cent market share. Then, the remaining 70 per cent will be [hybrid-electric vehicles], [hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles], and hydrogen engines. And I think [internal-combustion] engine cars will definitely remain."

 

Buzz didn't even include a dash-mounted flower vase. For $50k you'd figure... sigh.

 

Doubtful. You would find another excuse.

And I'm not rigid or too stubborn to admit anything. Remember, I said I was going to buy an EV, and despite my concerns, I actually did it instead of making excuse after excuse after excuse. And I adjusted to the annoyances that come with change. And it not just about "plugging in at night". It's best for the battery to be charging when not in use. ABC. Always Be Charging. There are days when I plug and unplug 3 or 4 times between home and work. If you lease, that's not a big deal because you don't care about long term battery life. But if you purchase and plan to keep for a while, you want to do what is recommended as best by the manufacturer to protect the battery.

 

outside of the 49 states that are not California hydrogen plays a bigger role than most people think. Most of the G7 countries aside from the United States have ambitions net zero goals and batteries can’t fulfill all segments. China is the leader in hydrogen production and use. Our airport in Toronto Canada is already using hydrogen Toyota Mirai vehicles for fleet purposes. Walmart trucks in Toronto run on hydrogen in small numbers.

‘Toyota is just positioning themselves to offer solutions to markets that will have the need, and sadly 49 states are being left behind.

 

Steve isn't a prime example of anything other than a hyper-picky customer that wants everything on a limited budget of $1000 month lease. Literally everybody has missed the mark with him. Not really on just Toyota at this point.