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High level.
People want more freedom of speech here, but not if it makes fun of what they like or goes against what they like.
Do you really give a **** if someone makes fun of EVs? Or is trolling you about EVs online?
You know the truth, and you are not going to be swayed. Who gives a **** what RNM GS3 or anyone says.
Like, does the following really bother you?
I'm about to buy a Tesla and couldn't give a **** less what people say or think about it.
You're missing the point. People are saying they don't want us to talk about EV's because this is a majority ICE forum. Fair enough. Give us back our EV forum. Alright, I think this discussion is digressing, can I ask you bro to close this thread?
And I'm going to keep posting how great they are. Don't like it? Ignore button
Well that’s silly and why it’s hard to find a common ground with EV only type folks.
EVs are not great in many aspects just like ICE is not perfect.
Most reasonable ppl agree on this 🤷♂️
Well that’s silly and why it’s hard to find a common ground with EV only type folks.
EVs are not great in many aspects just like ICE is not perfect.
Most reasonable ppl agree on this 🤷♂️
I'm just curious...why do you care? Did I force you to read my threads? I don't recall if I ever did, if I did my apologies
You're missing the point. People are saying they don't want us to talk about EV's because this is a majority ICE forum. Fair enough. Give us back our EV forum. Alright, I think this discussion is digressing, can I ask you bro to close this thread?
I mean... people have been telling EV people to shut up about EVs for years. Hasn't stopped anyone.
We will talk about a separate EV forum with the team.
The EV forum birth happened while I was gone. My understanding is car chat became toxic with EV vs ICE arguments. I do believe DaveGS4 had/has a Hyundai EV so i’m sure it got support. When i got back and saw the EV group it was filled with arguments and closed threads. So moving it to a separate place didn’t really resolve that. It was easier to find info on EVs but it seemed dominated by Tesla conversations. For example the Taycan/E Tron RS GT are my favorites and I barely saw discussion. Paul felt strongly we should merge them both since they are all cars. It falls under car chat. So after the merge most of the complaints were from the EV owners and fans. I might have heard one, maybe none from ICE owners. I would like CL to be different and be a place where things co-exist. And there likely will be more EV interest if it’s in one forum then completely separating it. They all have 4 wheels, a steering wheel and just use different methods of power. All are still classified as a car. Our licenses are the same.
What we are seeing here isn’t exclusive to CL. EV owners seem to really want their own yard to play in. Some ICE owners are very vocal about their hate of EV.
And there are just a few of us who see both and are fine with both. And again in this politically charged climate of either left or right, well that plays perfect for EV vs ICE. Again CL can and will be different and it’s an area of opportunity where this place called car chat can be an auto oasis where diversity of background and automobile ownership is shared and applauded.
I think some self reflection is needed as well. This isn’t aimed at one person. All of us. Stop taking things personally. Stop taking a brand you like personally. Stop playing victim. Stop attacking people. Start to emphatically read and listen. Try to communicate in a way that doesn’t feel condescending. Try to laugh at some posts. Avoid some topics and posts. Avoid some people you just don’t like. Find ways to meet in the middle. Word your paragraphs differently. Would you send this to your mom or boss or a customer?
Hoping in the near future to host meets again. Many people on CL I didn’t agree with a ton became good friends. Many who I got along with online I got along with more in person. It helps the social aspect and humanity to our online personas.
I am older now. In the past I have made almost every social media mistake one could make, including being banned. I could talk for days about things. The good part is I have learned greatly from it. So I hope to use my experiences to help CL and wherever I go.
In this thread there is spirited debate and no name calling. That’s absolutely fine and great.
Now I have a sick child, family in town and have to get ready to go to the 12 Hours of Sebring as a Lexus Racing USA partner on top of the usual daily madness. So excuse me if my replies are tardy.
My head is still spinning. I started a thread, it wasn't controversial, nothing political, I didn't insult anyone or diss what someone drives. I was what I thought, on my best behavior. And Shazam, it became contentious, angry and my brain couldn't keep up. It grew to 7 pages before I had it closed.
I talked about a topic I've talked about many times. I was sharing my experiences. I thought about what I wrote, and yes it was repetitive, but I can't recall forcing anyone to click on the thread and read it. If I did, I apologize, but I don't have that kind of power, at least that I know of.
Maybe I'm such an awesome writer that people are compelled to read my threads. I wish that were the case. But I'm just an average joe like everyone else working 9 to 5 for that paycheck.
I'm not calling out anyone or assigning blame, because maybe I'm part of the problem. So to that fellow CL members, how can we live in peace together? This thread is open to ideas. I won't be responding, but have at it.
My head is still spinning. I started a thread, it wasn't controversial, nothing political, I didn't insult anyone or diss what someone drives. I was what I thought, on my best behavior. And Shazam, it became contentious, angry and my brain couldn't keep up. It grew to 7 pages before I had it closed.
I talked about a topic I've talked about many times. I was sharing my experiences. I thought about what I wrote, and yes it was repetitive, but I can't recall forcing anyone to click on the thread and read it. If I did, I apologize, but I don't have that kind of power, at least that I know of.
Maybe I'm such an awesome writer that people are compelled to read my threads. I wish that were the case. But I'm just an average joe like everyone else working 9 to 5 for that paycheck.
I'm not calling out anyone or assigning blame, because maybe I'm part of the problem. So to that fellow CL members, how can we live in peace together? This thread is open to ideas. I won't be responding, but have at it.
Peace to all
Please let me lift up @AMIRZA786 .
I saw your thread and read everyone's posts, no judgement for anyone from me, just reading everyone's ideas.
The last post really made me think deeply when Sick said to talk to others on here like you're talking to a friend, customer, family member, etc. (paraphrased).
We don't have to comment on everything that bugs us. Sometimes it's best to just read and move on. It's useless to try to change people's opinions in most cases. The people that post here regularly have established what they believe in. No need to keep repeating it if it's going to lead to heated discourse.
Please let me lift up @AMIRZA786 .
I saw your thread and read everyone's posts, no judgement for anyone from me, just reading everyone's ideas.
The last post really made me think deeply when Sick said to talk to others on here like you're talking to a friend, customer, family member, etc. (paraphrased).
I like that.
And if I was talking to my friend, I would simply say "ok we get it dude, you love your Teslas, no gassing, no maintenance and they are great. But damn those energy prices are unnecessarily high because of stupidity. Not only that, my electric bill was through the roof blah blah blah."
Starting next week I will be on a big project for my company, and this will probably be the last time I am able to post a thread for awhile. This post is two part, part I is just a summary of why I've gone BEV, and why it's the best choice for me. I will not make this too long if I can, as most people have already read my various threads and I don't want to be too repetitive. Part II will be directed towards the moderators of this forum.
Part I
Many people automatically assume (falsely) most EV buyers move into this space to save the environment, save money, end their dependence on oil, or to virtue signal. That may be true for some, but speaking strictly for myself, I didn't make this move for any of those reasons. At 58 years young (I absolutely refuse to be old), most of my adult life was spent owning and driving various cars. As the former Director of IT for the parent company of my current employer, I traveled several times a year to your San Antonio Texas office and took the liberty of renting cars like Mustang GT's, Chargers (RT mostly), Cadillac CTS (3.6L). I've driven and enjoyed cars like LC500, BMW M3 and M4 Comp, M440i, LS460, and once rented (and almost crashed) a Lambo Huracan in 2017 while in Dubai. I've personally owned cars like the VW GTI, several Camry's, a 10th Gen Civic Si, and my last ICE car was an IS350 Sport that I modded (suspension and steering). So most of my adult life was spent driving and owning ICE. And I still have a deep connection to those roots, I still have respect for the engineering that went into vehicles, and I've never lost that respect. Then in 2022 I test drove a Polestar 2, and my whole perspective changed. Dual motors, 476 HP, 546 ft-lbs torque, 0 to 60 in 3.7 seconds (on every launch, any surface), and smooth as glass drive train. I fell in love instantly.
So let me just lay out in simple terms why I went EV and left the ICE camp:
Instant, on demand torque that never disappoints
HP delivery without compromise
Smooth NVH free drive train
More efficient than a Prius (136 MPGe for my Model 3 and 126 MPGe for my Model Y)
Virtually maint free...if you don't count the case of windshield wiper fluid I buy every 6 months )
Ability to charge at home, and a vast statewide supercharging network that allows me to travel
I didn't buy my EV's to save money. I didn't buy them to virtue signal. I didn't buy them because I hate ICE...I don't. I moved to BEV's because IMO they are an evolution in vehicle tech, they drive better, they are smoother and quieter, less complicated, and more efficient at the same time. Kind of like being able to eat dessert and not worry about getting fat and diabetes. Never have to go to gas stations, never have to go for oil changes or visit my mechanic, who is missing me btw. That's it. Very simple. I get a car that's fast, smooth, quiet and super efficient.
Now I understand that there are many of you who don't want or care for EV's. I respect that, and to you I want to say I'm not pushing my choices on you or anyone. I'm just sharing my reasons and experiences of owning and leasing EV's over the last almost 6 years. I absolutely love them, I love the way they drive, I love that in a straight line 90 percent of cars can't touch me, and I love that I can fuel them at home directly from the sun or power stored from the sun in batteries. There are no political or ideological reasons I chose EV's over ICE. It's purely performance and technology of EV's.
Part II
To the moderators. I totally respect you guys and what you are doing. And I acknowledge that you guys are volunteers, and it's not easy moderating a bunch of grown children . I'm not writing this to tell you guys what to do, but I feel strongly that the evidence here is showing that breaking the EV sub forum and integrating it with the General Car Chat is not working. I won't get into it too much here, just to say that although both are classified as cars, there has not been enough bridges that have been gapped yet. Although I believe that a large number of ICE owners on here are open to at least learning more about EV's, the clashes that are taking place are the reason we asked Dave for the EV sub forum. I won't say anymore on this.
Lastly...please guys, come up with some rules so things are not so confusing. If you guys need help writing guidelines, I'm willing to pitch in. When Dave setup the EV sub forum, I helped him write the rules, and with help from Lex2k we were able to come up with acceptable do's and don'ts. Even if the rules are more relaxed, there should be minimum guidelines.
Anyway, that's it. Peace to all 👍
part I: perhaps something of consideration is to stop justifying why one purchased an EV, members lose the debate when they say things like “could have bought any car” but in fact bought a 3-cylinder economy vehicle…or when they say things like “was gonna buy the V8 but bought the in-line 6 but have the money for the 8”…well they didn’t. In the case of an EV, it is a zero emissions vehicle..so inherently anyone who buys one is supporting the environment…always hearing about instant torque and how other drivers get smoked all the time just inflames other members and it’s the same thing over and over again…why is there such a need to justify? Just enjoy smoking lesser cars..having virtually no maintenance and all the futuristic tech….have my eye on a brand new Subaru Uncharged personally to replace my V8 4Runner
part II: personally think the merging of the ICE and EV was a good idea. Personally think too much censorship is not good, the “report” button should be removed and if someone gets themselves in hot water let the long term members work it out themselves and deal with any trolling, trolls feed on attention…perhaps mods should encourage the use of the ignore feature. But what the mods don’t realize is that there needs to be a way for some members to just duke it out…and if they duke it out in one thread here or there…then that keeps them out of other threads
Will add more later…
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Mar 20, 2026 at 03:15 PM.
This thread is a great example of the perceived issue. I honestly like you @AMIRZA786 and I think you are a great contributor to the forum......but we don't need a thread on why you went BEV. We have heard why over and over and over again in dozens if not hundreds of threads...it reminds me of someone who becomes a born again christian and everything always somehow makes it back to that when they are talking. "Did you try that new restaurant? They have great burgers". "I did, they are great, You know ever since I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior..." then down the road you're like "Man that meeting was brutal" and they go "It was....but you know bringing Jesus into my life has made it easier for me...." and you just want to bash yourself in the head with a hammer or scream "Shut up about Jesus!". That comes across as prostelethysing and for many people that is very off putting. Parents are also often guilty of that when they have kids and it is so obnoxious to people without kids.
Its GREAT you went EV and love it just like its GREAT that guy found a meaningful religion...but everything doesn't have to be about that and it doesn't have to overwhelm your personality...your decision to go EV can just be your decision...you don't have to justify it to us or to try and convert us to your way of thinking.
Talk about EVs...but just talk about them like you talk about every other car.
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