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Oh yeah, I love when it starts getting cool in the fall around here with turbo cars. Feels so much better than the middle of summer in 100% humidity.
Turbos actually are most useful in the summer and at high altitudes, when the air is warmest, most humid, and least dense. As the air cools and becomes denser and drier, or at lower altitude, it naturally helps the engine produce more power without added boost.
That is one reason why, with piston-powered General-Aviation aircraft, turbocharged engines are popular out West, flying over high mountains, and where take-offs and landings often have to be made at high-altitude airports where the air is less-dense.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jan 20, 2025 at 07:32 PM.
Bought it band new, gave it to my daughter for her 18th birthday. When I sold it in 2023 to my mechanic, it was hitting 200k. Not very fast, not very powerful, but had a buttery smooth engine and comfortable interior. It did have this one issue where sometimes the gears would get confused when I would suddenly slow down, and it would slam into a lower gear, giving the car a jolt. Dealer could never reproduce it
Turbos actually are most useful in the summer and at high altitudes, when the air is warmest, most humid, and least dense. As the air cools and becomes denser and drier, or at lower altitude, it naturally helps the engine produce more power without added boost.
That is one reason why, with piston-powered General-Aviation aircraft, turbocharged engines are popular out West, flying over high mountains, and where take-offs and landings often have to be made at high-altitude airports where the air is less-dense.
Yes all true but for cars with limited octane the cold allows us to get crazy and access normally unavailable levels of power. The difference of hot turbo car vs cold when compared to NA cars is massive is what we are talking about....
Yes all true but for cars with limited octane the cold allows us to get crazy and access normally unavailable levels of power. The difference of hot turbo car vs cold when compared to NA cars is massive is what we are talking about....
Well, yes, I'll agree with that. Obviously, a turbo in cold, dry conditions at low altitude will indeed add a lot of power to the engine....unless the air is so cold coming through the intakes that it interferes with the proper air-fuel ratio because the fuel can't vaporize properly, even with a warm engine and advanced EFI.
Turbos actually are most useful in the summer and at high altitudes, when the air is warmest, most humid, and least dense. As the air cools and becomes denser and drier, or at lower altitude, it naturally helps the engine produce more power without added boost.
That is one reason why, with piston-powered General-Aviation aircraft, turbocharged engines are popular out West, flying over high mountains, and where take-offs and landings often have to be made at high-altitude airports where the air is less-dense.
Originally Posted by Striker223
Yes all true but for cars with limited octane the cold allows us to get crazy and access normally unavailable levels of power. The difference of hot turbo car vs cold when compared to NA cars is massive is what we are talking about....
I’ve run my best times at the track in cooler temps. I don’t track much in the summer but when I do I can actively see timing being pulled because car running less boost and heat soaking. Plus with the heat, car wants to overheat. Sometimes I have to run the heat full blast on track in 90+ degree weather.
I’ve run my best times at the track in cooler temps. I don’t track much in the summer but when I do I can actively see timing being pulled because car running less boost and heat soaking. Plus with the heat, car wants to overheat. Sometimes I have to run the heat full blast on track in 90+ degree weather.
Turbos, especially under heavy-use, DO add heat....there's no question about that. That's why, for years, until synthetic oil became the norm, that had to have special Turbo-Approved oil.
Bought it band new, gave it to my daughter for her 18th birthday. When I sold it in 2023 to my mechanic, it was hitting 200k. Not very fast, not very powerful, but had a buttery smooth engine and comfortable interior. It did have this one issue where sometimes the gears would get confused when I would suddenly slow down, and it would slam into a lower gear, giving the car a jolt. Dealer could never reproduce it
Haven’t experienced that. *knock on wood*. The 3.5 V6 was deceptively quick until I remember being door to door with a F250 power stroke. I think it pulled away a little.
I’ve run my best times at the track in cooler temps. I don’t track much in the summer but when I do I can actively see timing being pulled because car running less boost and heat soaking. Plus with the heat, car wants to overheat. Sometimes I have to run the heat full blast on track in 90+ degree weather.
Yep, it sucks. Pulls so much out vs what you know it can do
Cold air has more density, so the turbo can pull more in then if the air is hot. Pulling timing was always an issue on hot summer days for my Si, I used to sometimes log my drives and I could see timing being pulled. A bigger Intercooler helped, but added more weight
Cold vs. hot intake air has been debated for decades, sure you want higher density but cold air/fuel doesn't ignite as well. From what I've seen if you're relying on cold air to make big power there's a good chance your engine is going to blow up it's not inherently capable of making that much power.
Cold vs. hot intake air has been debated for decades, sure you want higher density but cold air/fuel doesn't ignite as well. From what I've seen if you're relying on cold air to make big power there's a good chance your engine is going to blow up it's not inherently capable of making that much power.
That's not accurate at all, colder air allows more boost to be run as it lowers auto detonation temp for a given octane rating. That's why it's so desired....boost is only limited by charge temp and compressor map, colder air you feed the better your charge density and it's the job of the plugs to ignite the mix.
The end result is also usually the same charge temp but lower ambient temps mean you have greater air mass at said temp. The engine should be able to hold it no issue if you are using a good design, my EA824 stock made 420 crank and I'm at 750-800 wheel depending on fuel and air temp. On meth it's always at max power.
Good engine designs can easily 2x their stock power if not more, see any German turbo engine as an example. B58, S58, EA824/825, EA888 (as much as I hate it), the Mercedes V6/8 turbos, any W12, etc etc etc. My favorite example is the Audi V10, makes 1400whp on stock internals.
That's not accurate at all, colder air allows more boost to be run as it lowers auto detonation temp for a given octane rating.
Only to a point. Run a high boosted car in -30 and see what happens. Spoiler: don't very bad things can happen in fact I've seen it myself.
That's why it's so desired....boost is only limited by charge temp and compressor map, colder air you feed the better your charge density and it's the job of the plugs to ignite the mix.
Until the point where the engine comes apart.
The end result is also usually the same charge temp but lower ambient temps mean you have greater air mass at said temp. The engine should be able to hold it no issue if you are using a good design, my EA824 stock made 420 crank and I'm at 750-800 wheel depending on fuel and air temp. On meth it's always at max power.
You're still dealing with relatively warm air. I don't know the exact math anymore but intake air differential temp compared to engine operating temp has its limits.
Good engine designs can easily 2x their stock power if not more, see any German turbo engine as an example. B58, S58, EA824/825, EA888 (as much as I hate it), the Mercedes V6/8 turbos, any W12, etc etc etc. My favorite example is the Audi V10, makes 1400whp on stock internals.
Only to a point. Run a high boosted car in -30 and see what happens. Spoiler: don't very bad things can happen in fact I've seen it myself.
Until the point where the engine comes apart.
You're still dealing with relatively warm air. I don't know the exact math anymore but intake air differential temp compared to engine operating temp has its limits.
I don't believe this for a second.
Believe it lol! Dozens of build videos....here is a kit for stock engines making it, the main limitation for R8s is the trans clutch. Can't hold much more than 1000 wheel
The BMW S58 does 1000 wheel stock internals as well no problem. So does the Mercedes 4.0TT. So does the W12 with upsized turbos. So does the Viper V10. Many such cases outside of Toyota world
Intake air temps of -2F here don't cause issues so you
might want to re-examine your theory with a better tuner or engine design. On lesser designs you do indeed have problems and freeze over/condensation issues but not on well designed systems that you allow to come to operating temp before going max power.
I have seen ecoboosts condense and blow up though, they have a bad intercooler setup stock but again, good vs bad design.
Last edited by Striker223; Jan 20, 2025 at 11:47 PM.
If a engine can do 1,000 hp with tunes and upgrades, I have to believe it's a "half a million miles capable engine" when just running low effort duty and neutered a little and no tune.
Last edited by Margate330; Jan 21, 2025 at 03:17 AM.
Tires were right under 50 degrees so couldn’t flat out and no paddle shift.
