I’m talking about back in the day, but even today the LS is a step up from an E Class. Sure people think it’s FWD and they don’t know anything about it because they don’t know anything about it. I had an LS400 when it was new. People thought it was an Avalon and thought it was a V6, doesn’t mean it was. It was a much nicer car than an E Class back then. My best friend’s dad had an E430 and we drove them and compared them all the time. The E was much firmer and Teutonic feeling and didn’t feel nearly as luxurious as the LS400. S Class was always on another level until the 460.

 

Yadda yadda yadda. Lexus already has enough "handling." The majority of the market doesn't care about that. They want luxury, style, reliability, and low costs. Lexus is already where they need to be. They just need fresh products, like anyone else.

 

Is that why BMW and Mercedes kill Lexus in US sales?

 

Last I heard, most BMW/Mercedes reviews say their handling is good, but no big deal. Same with Lexus. The majority of buyers don't race. In this segment, it's more of the latest fashion statement and low lease price.

 

But then Merc years later didn’t do very well did it? And who came first - with just some minor tweaks to the first gen.

1998:




https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

2004:





https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...mparison-test/

 

Body rigidity is not necessarily about handling. Having a stiff, rigid structure improves all aspects of a car, ride comfort, solidity, quietness, refinement...

 

As someone who owned both the LSs that won those tests, a 98 LS400 and a 2004 LS430...cost was a big reason why they won. We absolutely considered the german cars an upgrade at both of those times, and the decision to get the LS had a lot to do with cost. The LS was so good at such lower cost it was a no brainer. If cost were no object though my Dad would have had an S Class or 7 Series instead for sure (in 98 he preferred the 7, in 04 the S). Not to say those LSs weren't incredible cars, they were and probably "better cars" but the whole package of the 7 or S was just superior. If you read the text of the comparison they say the same thing...

 

Yep. LS were never meant to be the absolute best, but clearly best at the price point. However that was the end of the era.

Lexus then started to up the price without much innovation with the LS460 then well we all know what happened with the LS500.

 

The LS460 actually had a ton of innovation, they went to a MB style Multi-link suspension, first 7 speed automatic ever in a car, first automated parking ever in a car, first fully electronic brake modulation system ever in a car…

 

I thought the LS460 had an 8 speed?

 

I meant 8 speed. Fat fingers lol

 

Do they? Last I checked lexus unit sales was pretty close to Benz and BMW. Sure majority of Lexus sales are the RX / NX, but BMW / Mercedes have about 843 models while Lexus has about 10 *insert sarcasm* but some truth there lol.

With the addition of the TX (currently on stop sale), the new GX, I wouldn't be shocked Lexus outsells BMW and Mercedes in 2025 in the USA.

 

Mercedes actually introduced the world's first 7-speed auto. Ford and Lincoln offered a fully self-parking feature starting in about 2008 or 2009, but I think you are correct that the Lexus LS460 beat that by a year or two, in 2006-2007. I remember test-driving an LS460 back then, although I found the self-parking system complex and confusing to set up and use. Two things I never forgot about the LS460, however, were the incredibly low noise level on all road surfaces and the insanely good Mark Levinson sound system. To this day, I have not heard a better car-stereo from the factory, although to be honest, I would not be the best judge of one today with the partial high-frequency hearing loss in my left ear.

 

As I said before it was the first 8 speed, it was a finger flub.

 

I think this illustrates pretty clearly why the current LS is struggling to get sales. The older LS's were successful because they cost less than the S Class, and that there was no other meaningful competitor that could compete based on a lower price (The Infiniti Q45 wasn't a compelling choice based on sales numbers from those days). But now there is a compelling competitor in the Genesis G90.

You couple that and the reality that sedans no longer sell in the same numbers as 20 years ago, and you end up with the current sales numbers the LS gets. I doubt adding body rigidity is going to right this sinking ship.