I really like the suv

 

 

With $100k equipment all over Waymo's and the amount of time they have been testing and operating you would think by now they could avoid a flooded road. This morning commuting to work using FSD, my Model 3 avoided shredded tire pieces on the highway going 70 mph without even leaving the lane

 

who said tesla vision couldn't see much?

X - Formerly Twitter

 

All the "car enthusiasts" here 😁

 

It you mean here on CL, why would a car enthusiast be excited about AI and cameras? They won’t be. The forum deserves better than that.

Tesla owners love saying they are a technology company. They are literally canceling their best cars and hoping people and companies buy and get driven in a future robotaxi. They don’t want people driving. The exact opposite of car enthusiasm.

 

He was being sarcastic, but you proved his point at the same time 🙂

 

because car enthusiasm involves more than driving a car. and because the vast MAJORITY of driving is insufferably boring unless one enjoys driving recklessly on city streets. every car maker is pursuing autonomy. early adopters gush over it. as soon as it shows clear superiority to all but formula 1 drivers, lol, consumers will FLOCK to using it. more importantly, self driving cars provide an uber/taxi experience without having to interact with a driver, a truly self-driving car can be the designated driver if you want to have drinks out. it can go charge itself without anyone having to be involved so chargers aren’t needed at home. fleets of self-driving cars can provide near instant ‘taxi’ service 24x7. they can go get and deliver packages. i am enormously ‘enthusiastic’ about this, while still being enthusiastic about DRIVING a car on a wonderful road when i want to, not when i have to.

the S and X were old. they were great for tesla pr to scale. but they each needed significant investment to go on. i specifically went to tesla to buy a model x, but ended up with a model y. the x was neat, but not 2x the price of the model y neat.

the 3 and Y are great. cybertruck ain’t pretty, but it IS amazing!

about technology, like it or not, cars are now basically transportation robots with tons of software, sensors, amazing electro-mechanical systems. whether ice or ev, it really doesn’t matter.

all this tech can make even bad drivers much much better. more tech makes everyone safer. most people THINK they’re better drivers than they are.

tech does not mean less enthusiasm.

 

Maybe it's just me but car enthusiasts also want safe cars in fact especially since high power means more speed.

 

Great post 👍👍👍!

Very well explained exposition on the future of cars, driving and robotics in cars.

Embrace the technology folks!! It's here to stay whether you like it or not.

 

I think you're blurring the lines between car enthusiasm and tech & transportation enthusiasm. I enjoy driving every day, I look forward to it. Not a chore at all. Getting dressed in the morning I get a little excited every morning when I realize I get to drive my car that I love. I enjoy cleaning and taking care of and enjoying my cars. Have to get my oil changed this week, I'm looking forward to doing that and going to the dealer and checking out the showroom etc. My cars and cars in general are a big part of my enjoyment of my life. Thats IMO what makes me a car enthusiast.

All the stuff you describe, its cool but as a car enthusiast it doesn't excite me on any level. In fact it concerns me because it seeks to further turn cars into appliances and driving into simply a chore which as a car enthusiast makes me sad.

Not meant to be offensive at all, but I think you specifically have turned much more into a transportation tech enthusiast than a car enthusiast...I see it in what excites you and the decisions you have made with your own cars (trading the LC for a Model Y etc). Thats not meant to be an insult again, theres nothing wrong with that...but your interests around cars and my and Mike's as an example have become markedly different.

Thats because Tesla let the X and S rot basically, they could have continued to make them worth that price difference.

Thats a further example of the differences between being a car enthusiast and a transportation tech enthusiast, that excites you and it makes me very sad. If you hang around car guys at meets and things and car shows, you'll find they're of a similar mentality to me and Mike.

 

I think the point is it doesn’t have to be either/or. A car which is fun to drive but can also drive itself can deliver to each of those two types of enthusiasts. A car which only really checks one of the two boxes obviously doesn’t. And the Mad Max mode on a Tesla blurs the line even more. The car drives itself, but surprisingly aggressively.

 

But Tesla's design leans into the fact that its really designed to drive itself, not be driven which makes it very unattractive to me. At least the design of the 3 and Y. Also, riding in a car driving itself aggressively doesn't interest me...I like to drive the car.

Doesn't have to be either/or, but I'm just pointing out the enthusiasm is different.

 

You should give it a try. It’s surprisingly addictive. FSD is unbelievably good these days, far better than the earlier iterations I tried. FSD 14 was a big leap forward. If you experienced FSD before, the latest iterations will blow you away. I’m roughly 50% FSD, 50% me driving my car. For me, it is indeed that best of both worlds. You can have both.

 

Interesting take rate data from the ChDM where full size bevs have to compete against erev offerings

Denza
- D9 — 82,101 EREV/PHEV vs 7,263 BEV (92% / 8%)
- N9 — PHEV-only (100%)
- Z9 / Z9GT — 7,370 EREV/PHEV vs 1,328 BEV (85% / 15%)
- N8L / N7 — EREV-only (100%)

HIMA
- AITO M9 — 103,670 EREV/PHEV vs 13,464 BEV (88% / 12%)
- AITO M8 — 123,440 EREV/PHEV vs 26,480 BEV (82% / 18%)
- AITO M7 — 109,531 EREV/PHEV vs 11,887 BEV (90% / 10%)
- AITO M5 — 25,418 EREV/PHEV vs 10,753 BEV (70% / 30%)
- Luxeed R7 — 22,395 EREV/PHEV vs 58,017 BEV (28% / 72%)
- Luxeed V9 — EREV-only (100%)
- Stelato S9 / S9T — 22,256 EREV/PHEV vs 13,223 BEV (61% / 39%)
- Maextro S800 — 10,907 EREV/PHEV vs 1,017 BEV (91% / 9%)

I guess battery tech isnt just there for customers satisfaction in the full size space and its unique demands.