General EV Conversation
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,858
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
Why do I have to keep spelling this out.
Motor Trend, an entity comprised of (biased and bought) people was telling us, (also people) the Lightning, was one of the most significant vehicles ever. You'd have to scroll up because I quoted it much better but MT was basically saying "Lightning is so important because it's the vehicle that will transition millions into EV ownership." I'm paraphrasing.
It's not happening. People are free to buy EVs, nobody is saying anything against that. But here you have the market speaking for itself. Not as many people are into EVs as many people thought. It is what it is, it's not a shot at anyone.
So is it a good thing Ford isn't building a planned humongous battery plant? That speaks well for Lightning's future?
Motor Trend, an entity comprised of (biased and bought) people was telling us, (also people) the Lightning, was one of the most significant vehicles ever. You'd have to scroll up because I quoted it much better but MT was basically saying "Lightning is so important because it's the vehicle that will transition millions into EV ownership." I'm paraphrasing.
It's not happening. People are free to buy EVs, nobody is saying anything against that. But here you have the market speaking for itself. Not as many people are into EVs as many people thought. It is what it is, it's not a shot at anyone.
So is it a good thing Ford isn't building a planned humongous battery plant? That speaks well for Lightning's future?
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,858
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
Well, what goes up must come down, so those downhill segments will help to significantly increase range in an EV thanks to regen, and you have to remember that EVs are remarkably efficient in city and in particular bumper to bumper traffic. EV's get incredibly good miles per kWh in slow traffic. So the conditions you describe aren't as problematic as it may appear. It's speed that kills range when towing, in large part due to aerodynamic drag, and at speed you have the double whammy of the increase in drag proportional to the square of speed plus additional aerodynamic drag from your trailer and contents.
Current technology just is not there.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,901
Likes: 1,511
From: San Diego, CA
The only thing Motor Trend is/was saying is that the first electric version of the best selling vehicle in America is a big deal. And they were right - it is, and it was. And it (along with the R1T and EV trucks from others) doesn't necessarily need to convert a purchaser right now to act as a bridge to possible consideration of a future EV for truck buyers. Some like me will get the pioneering releases, some prefer to wait until the next generation comes along. Or both. But MT wasn't wrong when they noted that the first electric version of the best selling vehicle period was noteworthy.
As for the "bought and biased" arguments, that's intellectually weak messenger-shooting and it doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny, if for no other reason than for every manufacturer who might pay for an award there are many, many more than didn't/wouldn't pay and didn't win it. So why would they continue to advertise in that publication when it's actively promoting the best interests of their competitor?
As for the "bought and biased" arguments, that's intellectually weak messenger-shooting and it doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny, if for no other reason than for every manufacturer who might pay for an award there are many, many more than didn't/wouldn't pay and didn't win it. So why would they continue to advertise in that publication when it's actively promoting the best interests of their competitor?
Last edited by swajames; Dec 12, 2023 at 10:39 AM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,858
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
The only thing Motor Trend is/was saying is that the first electric version of the best selling vehicle in America is a big deal. And they were right - it is, and it was. And it (along with the R1T and EV trucks from others) doesn't necessarily need to convert a purchaser right now to act as a bridge to possible consideration of a future EV for truck buyers. Some like me will get the pioneering releases, some prefer to wait until the next generation comes along. Or both. But MT wasn't wrong when they noted that the first electric version of the best selling vehicle period was noteworthy.
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Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,901
Likes: 1,511
From: San Diego, CA
And your source please on your second claim regarding laptop batteries.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,073
Likes: 3,868
From: Maryland
This is classic supply and demand. Of course the BS news will make it as rosy as possible, they've been telling us to drive an EV for years. It's disgusting how easy it is to spot. So now I'm guessing the MT line is--- "F-150 is still the truck everyone needs to help them make the transition.... well sort of." Of course the news/magazines/etc is going to downplay it because they know people like me (and there's a lot of them like me) are laughing at them, again, because they were wrong.
Ford is also cancelling (wisely not spending) $12B in their EV program. Supply and demand. The demand is just not there, not nearly how they thought at least. I could have predicted that one with my eyes closed. If you want an EV, get a Tesla.... case closed. I also could not find one Blazer EV at the Chevy dealer yesterday. Blazer is MT's latest SUV of the year, I have not seen one of these out on the roads ether.
Ford is also cancelling (wisely not spending) $12B in their EV program. Supply and demand. The demand is just not there, not nearly how they thought at least. I could have predicted that one with my eyes closed. If you want an EV, get a Tesla.... case closed. I also could not find one Blazer EV at the Chevy dealer yesterday. Blazer is MT's latest SUV of the year, I have not seen one of these out on the roads ether.
Again, 3000-4000 people a month ARE buying them. Stop gaslighting people lol. Continuing to incorrectly say that they are not selling doesn't make it true.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
I think Ford delaying their EV build out is a huge mistake. In uncertain times people play it safe that includes vehicle purchases this is slowing growth in EVs IMO. The key is slowing growth, that doesn't mean no growth if you want to see that look at ICE sales, which are slowly going down.
From what I've read Ford is busy working on a refresh for the Lightning. Improved electronics, better battery and a bunch of other things.
So LCID is being booted from the Nasdaq the stock has seen a nice run since hitting all time lows. Hope people got out when they could stock is down 10% just today.
What projections? Electric vehicles are the fastest growing segment by far.
So LCID is being booted from the Nasdaq the stock has seen a nice run since hitting all time lows. Hope people got out when they could stock is down 10% just today.
What projections? Electric vehicles are the fastest growing segment by far.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,858
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
I think even the most open-minded person toward EVs would say that is “F’ing ridiculous.”
My last laptop wasn’t powered by a 383hp 5.7L V8 for starters.
Other makes aren’t doing nearly as well, can you make that concession?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
If you consider that different than a gas car. I don't, it's a gas engine with a tiny battery. And I own one so don't call me a hater.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,073
Likes: 3,868
From: Maryland
Actually no...sales figures just don't show that to be true...you're entirely too focused on what you see without looking at sales figures.
For instance we have talked about how MB lots are clogged with EQ models, and they are...but...
https://electrek.co/2023/10/10/merce...fter-solid-q3/
For instance we have talked about how MB lots are clogged with EQ models, and they are...but...
https://electrek.co/2023/10/10/merce...fter-solid-q3/
After EV sales soared 284% in Q3 over last year, Mercedes electric vehicles are nearing 15% of total US sales. In comparison, Ford and GM are around 3% to 4%.
Mercedes-Benz sold 10,423 electric vehicles between July and September, an increase of 284% from last year.
Mercedes-Benz sold 10,423 electric vehicles between July and September, an increase of 284% from last year.
Last edited by SW17LS; Dec 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
LFP batteries use no cobalt. The majority of Tesla's use LFP cells. As for "coal powered EVs" well about that.
https://www.transportenvironment.org...electric-cars/
https://www.transportenvironment.org...electric-cars/
In the worst case scenario, an electric car with a battery produced in China and driven in Poland still emits 37% less CO2 than petrol. And in the best case scenario, an electric car with a battery produced in Sweden and driven in Sweden can emit 83% less than petrol.
Despite their green credentials, HEVs’ and PHEVs’ lifecycle emissions are much closer to polluting conventional petrol cars than to BEVs. The results show that HEVs only achieve a 21% reduction in LCA emissions compared to an equivalent petrol car while PHEV improvements are limited to 26%
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,858
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
As a writer/editor, I just think it’s garbage. I can’t believe that cleared the powers that be.
I also predict this slowdown will continue, we’ll see. I bet they cut making 1600 of them in a few months.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16,858
Likes: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
Actually no...sales figures just don't show that to be true...you're entirely too focused on what you see without looking at sales figures.
For instance we have talked about how MB lots are clogged with EQ models, and they are...but...
https://electrek.co/2023/10/10/merce...fter-solid-q3/
For instance we have talked about how MB lots are clogged with EQ models, and they are...but...
https://electrek.co/2023/10/10/merce...fter-solid-q3/