When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
...
Ground is the ultimate safety factor for most kinds of wiring fault. It gives any current leakage an easy return path. When there is no ground, the next easiest path will be used. In many cases, it's the unfortunate bag of meat that touches the energized device that becomes the shortest path to ground. That's why the electrical code was changed sixty years ago to require grounds for all outlets. Except this one, because $$$$.
I like it.
Plus, a standard service call out to the residence can answer a lot of questions.
If the 220v outlet is mounted in a metal box and the wires resides in continuous metal conduit pipe and the conduit is properly terminated in the panel, adding a ground is as simpe as screwing the outlet ground to the metal box and no extra wires need to be run.
That is of course, if it's still allowed to be done that way.
Plus a new outlet is less than $20 so he can put a new one in while on the same service call checking stuff out and then you know the connections are good
I have an idea . My aunt lives in a similar type area as your brother, which is in a small town in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. The nearest city is a farm town, the nearest fast charger is more than 100 miles away, and there are literally only two Level 2 destination chargers in her area, and only one road
The most relevant ones in this case would either be a hot shorted to neutral (which would trip a GFCI if installed, but there almost certainly isn't one), or a loss of neutral due to the neutral wire becoming degraded, corroded or disconnected from the bus bar, broken somewhere along the line, or damage to the receptacle. 10-30 is designed to be plugged in and left plugged in, not regularly plugged and unplugged. There are other possibilities, but those are the big ones. If either of those things occurs, there will be service voltage on the car's body, because there is no ground to divert it to.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
You can make an argument that anything becomes "unsafe" once something safer becomes available. I have a 10-30 plug for my dryer, and I have no intention of replacing it.
Right, and the "safer thing" has been available 70+ years (can't find when NEMA 14 was originally introduced, but it was well before 1960), and (mostly) mandated for 61 of those years. The fact remains, that even with all the hand wringing by the appliance lobby that succeeded in continuing to allow the use of an outlet type that had already been declared unsafe by the NFPA, plugging anything into a 10-30 other than a clothes dryer or range has been a code violation since that outlet was banned with an asterisk in 1962. This is why there are no EV chargers with permanently attached 10-30 plugs that are UL Listed, and there never will be. The Tesla one appears to have slid through because it has a modular pigtail, and they likely certified with a 14-30 or 14-50, then quietly added the 10-30 after receiving the mark.
At any rate, you asked for input on how to safely charge at your brother's house, I've provided mine, and I'll back away now.
The most relevant ones in this case would either be a hot shorted to neutral (which would trip a GFCI if installed, but there almost certainly isn't one), or a loss of neutral due to the neutral wire becoming degraded, corroded or disconnected from the bus bar, broken somewhere along the line, or damage to the receptacle. 10-30 is designed to be plugged in and left plugged in, not regularly plugged and unplugged. There are other possibilities, but those are the big ones. If either of those things occurs, there will be service voltage on the car's body, because there is no ground to divert it to.
This is absolutely false. Car will not pull high current unless there is a proper connection and even if it did (it can't, there is no circuit to complete) there is no way there will be voltage on the car body.
This is absolutely false. Car will not pull high current unless there is a proper connection and even if it did (it can't, there is no circuit to complete) there is no way there will be voltage on the car body.
Incorrect. EV chargers use 240V, not 120V. So they need both hots to function and do not require (or use) a neutral. A broken neutral does not break the circuit. It removes the "ground substitute". This is analogous to using a cheater plug on a 3-prong 120v device.
Incorrect. EV chargers use 240V, not 120V. So they need both hots to function and do not require (or use) a neutral. A broken neutral does not break the circuit. It removes the "ground substitute". Much like using a cheater plug on a 3-prong 120v device.
The charging system in any EV handshakes before supplying high current and it certainly won't make the car body live. I can't believe anyone would say that. If there is no neutral the car won't charge.
The charging system in any EV handshakes before supplying high current and it certainly won't make the car body live. I can't believe anyone would say that. If there is no neutral the car won't charge.
Here's one of the charger manufacturers saying exactly that:
ClipperCreek does not manufacture any electric vehicle charging stations with the NEMA 10-30 plug as the corresponding receptacle (outlet) for this plug type is typically wired with a neutral wire as opposed to an earth ground and all of our models require an earth ground connection in order to operate properly. Additionally, when charging an electric vehicle the ground is passed through to the vehicle from the station for safety earth grounding during charging. If a neutral is used instead of a ground the neutral could generate a charge on the vehicle chassis, creating a potential safety hazard upon contact with the vehicle during or after charging. For these safety reasons we do not offer an EVSE with the NEMA 10-30 plug and it would not be advised to utilize any of our EVSEs with a NEMA 10-30 adapter.
Originally Posted by LeX2K
If there is no neutral the car won't charge.
That's interesting, since there is never a neutral even expected. The Mobile connector's adapter isn't wired for one:
As I said, an EV charger requires 2 hots to complete the circuit. That's how you get 240V from a split-phase system. The neutral is needed to make 120V.
Also notice that the "ground" (neutral in this case) is passed through on that connector into the wall unit, and from the wall unit into the car by the charging connector:
From there it is mechanically connected to the chassis ground. Thus the neutral is connected to the body.
The document you pulled that ClipperCreek quote from is from 2014. I have never heard of anyone getting shocked charging their EV at home, or anywhere. From reddit
Clipper Creek is just spreading FUD
Exactly.
BTW there is no way to say for sure how the charging port works without seeing a detailed schematic. This is not a simple device like a clothes drier.
Power going into the charge port is filtered, converted, then converted again this is not like plugging in a toaster. I'm confident there are numerous checks to make sure NO power goes into the vehicle chassis to say so is fear mongering I question why anyone would do that.
I honestly would be very reluctant to plug into a NEMA 10-30, anything other than a dryer or Range without using a splitter and the EV (or charging adapter) using no more than 24 amp. Also as stated earlier, 10-30 is not really designed for constant plugging and unplugging, another reason to use a splitter
. My aunt lives in a similar type area as your brother, which is in a small town in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. The nearest city is a farm town, the nearest fast charger is more than 100 miles away, and there are literally only two Level 2 destination chargers in her area, and only one road
