bought the car at Sewell Lexus in Fort Worth.
I am so disappoint now. btw, anyone know where can I get the kit to reduce the windnoise? dammn I will do it myself.

 

Ok, let me see if I can jump in here and play catch up. I tried to read back a bit and there seems to be a few different issues/things going on.

I had my first experience with a SWB LS the other day. I had the luck of pawning them off on my other diagnostic guys, but it didnt last.

There seem to be a couple issues with the wind noise. I didnt read really hard into this thread, just tried to scan through since theres so much writing in here.

The first step in the TSIB is to check for missing body plugs. To clear this up, there are 4 of them located in each corner of the wheelbase. Its hard to see from the ground (as MikeTX's pictures suggest). It says "If they are missing, replace them and road test the vehicle. If the nosie is gone, do not go further with this TSIB".

You guys already know, installing laminated glass into the front doors is part of the TSIB. I believe this solves the MAJORITY of the noise. When I test drove this particular vehicle, I felt as if the window was not completely closed, although it was. The windnoise was horrible.

A brief rundown of the TSIB. You remove the chrome piece of the exterior door trim, and install foam in new places, and replace other pieces already there in an effort to block off air rushing through the door. Next, you install new clips that hold down the body colored peices of trim that run parallel with the A-pillar and the windshield, also installing foam down inside of the fender in an attempt to reduce air coming through the interior of the A-pillar itself.

Now some of you are concerned with turbulence noise around the mirrors. What my dealership has been doing is having our 3M guy install a little bit of the 3M bra material around the light at the bottom of the mirror. It is just enough to cover the entire light, and the edges around it in an attempt to make it more aerodynamic. Now I offer this information, but take note that some dealerships may NOT be able to perform this, and it sometimes does not cure this issue. We acknowledge it, and attemp to dampen it, but its not perfect.

After spending a day in a half (not as simple as it sounds when typed out) working on this car, I test drove the vehicle. I was not satisfied with the noise levels, although they were dampened. The day was an abnormally windy day which I believe contributed to the higher levels of noise. I grabbed my Diagnostic Specialist and took him for a ride. Having experience with many other LS's, he said that was simply the best we could do, and that he would meet with the customer to discuss the issue.


My thoughts are that, yes, there is SOME abnormal wind noise levels, but most cars have wind noise. As you lower general ambient noise levels in the cabin, other rattles, creaks, and wind noises become more obivous. This is not an excuse, but rather an explanation. I think Lexus is going in the right direction on this issue, but theres still some work to be done. They are well aware of the issue and are working to resolve it. I know that much.


Have some sympathy for those techs man, its not a fun job. Its very, very involved.

 

I suspected as much. I bought my car from them, had a very bad experience with a warranty claim with them, and will never buy or deal with them again.
Thumbs down on Sewell Lexus of Ft. Worth!!!

 

very nice stuff onepointon, that's great info!!!!!!

so regarding the mirror and that puddle light, using clear bra to cover up the light and make it more aerodynamic, in your opinion, did it help the noise?

 

I didnt notice a difference, but then again, I was so distracted by the feeling of the window being open that I didnt notice anything coming from the mirrors.

My diagnostic specialist feels that it makes a difference and I trust he is correct. You are correct, it is the puddle light. He is a very smart guy when it comes to rattles, squeaks, and things like this. He spent a lot of time on this issue and came up with the 3M placement on the mirror. As a result, we are doing this with every TSIB for windnoises.

Ill be honest, my daily grind lately has been dashrattles and other interior noises. Seems like I am doing two dashes a day lately and I just dont have a lot of time with the wind noises. This is just what I have seen on this one car, and what I have learned while talking to my DS and FTS concerning this issue.

 

Onepoint - I know you guys have thought of this, but if the window isn't closing/sealing properly, isn't it possible to adjust the window travel or the window stop so it corrects the travel and closes properly?

As a general statement, if the noise is as bad as Onepointon says, there's no question we'd know if we had it. And thank goodness, I don't. So it continues to appear this is a fairly rare condition, and certainly not something that affects all LS's.

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Well....I had my fairly new '08 LS460 on the highway last weekend, and even with getting it up to 100 on one brief stretch, I didn't hear any wind noise. I even asked the guy that was riding with me if it felt like we were going 100 and he looked up fairly surprised and said "no".

I have no doubt that some owners hear wind noise, but I think it might be that some are just more sensitive to such things. It's like when I was shopping for HD TV's several years ago....some folks would see "rainbows" on the DLP sets, and I didn't see anything but an incredible picture. Or how some people listen to speakers and think they sound bad and I'm sitting there thinking how good they sound. Go figure. Maybe someone in here would get in my car and think it is noisy, but sounds pretty darn quiet to me.

Or.....maybe I got one of the good ones?

 

cool. maybe when i get a chance i can try to put some clear bra (i have left over) over the puddle light and see if that helps

 

We were discussing the option of putting something in the top of the window run seal in an attempt to put more pressure on the top of the window. The problem we ran into is that is activated the pinch protection for the 'auto-up' feature of the window. The window is actually fully closed, there is just a lot of wind noise for some reason.

No doubt every car is going to have wind noise. Keep in mind that the LS460, or any vehicle for that matter, is moving a lot of air out of its way as it goes down the highway. The problem is when a customer hears a loud wind noise, they are stuck on that noise. They usually think that a dampened noise after the TSIB is not acceptable because it is technically still there, when in fact, its normal. Its really a fine line on what is acceptable and what is not. The problem is that its the customer's judgement on what is acceptable and there is really only SO much that we can do.


Romini - When you install the 3M, try to make a 1/4"-1/2" boarder around the puddle light. The thing about this is, the customer doesnt even know its there, which is nice. Let me know how you feel about the turbulence levels once its done, Im interested to know your feedback.

 

Onepointon, In my LS460 I have the wind noise and it sounds like a window is not properly closed. One day I was driving on the highway and I decided to try something. I was driving at about 100mph and I could hear the noise, I tapped the down side of both the font door window switches, just enough to ease the pressure off of the seal, but not enough to cause any air to come in, and that seem to make the noise go away.

Do you know if there is a way to adjust the window so that it does not close so tightly against the seal?. I think this is what is causing the noise in my case.

 

gordy,

Here is something you can try... go to Home Depot or Lowes... pick up a small pack of kitchen cabinet levelers..they sort of look like very small plastic door stops and from the side view are stairstep appearing....

With windows fully closed and from outside the car....Using 3 of them, lightly slide them to point of resistance between outer gasket and window at...when facing closed window from outside of driver side...upper left, midpoint and extreme upper right...mark them at point where sig resistance is noted...then remove and cut them to size at marker point...replace them in between gasket and window so that they do not protrude into airstream...see if that helps..if so...your situation can be remedied by interior door panel removal and tech adjusting window tensioning so that when it closes the glass is tensioned inward forced against inner seal of window frame..

The above was what I was next going to do for myself on my own for ES but traded out instead.



Onepoint you can also try that yourself next time and report back .

 

Sounds like a good idea, and I am not knocking it. The issue is that the window glass is not adjustable. I guess if you were determinded, you could oval out the tabs that bolt to the window regulator to get adjustment out of them, but I would highly not recommend it. I think that option would open a hell of a lot of worms and issues, not to mention the only way to reverse it would be to replace. Im sure a dealership would not warranty something like that and the glass is pretty pricey.


The other issue with shimming the door seal is activating the pinch protection on the window. We tried small objects in there, but when you press "auto-up", the window would come back down after it reached the top because it thought something was in its way of travel.

I think there are a few issues going on besides the glass. I believe there is wind coming up the interior of the A-pillar, the door frame, and a few other areas. Its a very complicated problem in my opinion.

As far as wind noise at 100mph, show me a car that doesnt have wind noise at that speed. I have seen some customer's claiming wind noise at 90-100mph before. We simply tell them we can not drive their vehicles at that speed and no problems found.

Gordy35 - I do not think there is a way to have the glass back off the seal. The only thing I can think of is to take it to your dealership and demonstrat this for a technician. As I said above, the glass is not adjustable. Maybe if they see this on a lot of vehicles, and technicians took the step to write a Product Report, maybe Lexus could impliment a newly designed window seal or way to modify it. I just dont know if thats a wide spread solution though.

 

The 100mph plus before a wind noise is heard complaints are absurd...the 45mph up to 70 should and need to be addressed.

As to adjusting window tension that came from a service manager who did it on an ES350 and the guy was very happy with the results, the rest of us though had to just live with it as you know there has not been a wind noise TSIB for ES350 owners in contrast to that for LS owners.

And we heard the cabin is quieter..blah..blah too..no doubt started by a "Baghdad Bob" FTS when in reality it is and was wind noise.


And I agree with you that something may be up with the... coming in-up the A pillar as another source just looking at the seam as it approaches toward or level to hood area from an ES perspective anyway.

 

IKES, I had a very bad problem with their competitor and started going there. What happened?
My understanding was they were buying back ESs while other dealers were not..

 

PM sent.

Who was the competitor you had the problem with?