Brake Dust TSB problems (Dealer won't replace)
04-27-07, 04:19 PM
#1
Brake Dust TSB problems (Dealer won't replace)
Ok, so i'm sitting at the dealership now getting my new tires installed along with my first alignment. I also gave him a copy of the known TSB for alternative front brake pads. Well apparently my front pads are already worn out! I only have 20.5k miles on them. They said that with less than 6/32nds of pad left they can not cover under this TSB. They told me I have 3/32nds left. 
So basically I just talked to 3 different people and basically told me I would have to call corporate. I told them that 20,000 is premature and that if I had known about this TSB earlier I would have been in to replace the dusty front pads. They said they can't ship my old pads back to corporate or they would get in some kind of trouble with less than 6/32.
Oh and get this. They said the rotors are one time use only and "should" not be turned.
Anyone else have this issue and why the heck would pads wear out so fast! Even on my old EVO VIII my stock pads lasted me twice as long and I drove that thing much harder than the Lexus.
So basically I just talked to 3 different people and basically told me I would have to call corporate. I told them that 20,000 is premature and that if I had known about this TSB earlier I would have been in to replace the dusty front pads. They said they can't ship my old pads back to corporate or they would get in some kind of trouble with less than 6/32. Oh and get this. They said the rotors are one time use only and "should" not be turned.
Anyone else have this issue and why the heck would pads wear out so fast! Even on my old EVO VIII my stock pads lasted me twice as long and I drove that thing much harder than the Lexus.
04-27-07, 04:27 PM
#3
Super Moderator
Actually, TimboIS, it says:
"High-friction brakes are standard equipment for the front brakes only and require periodic inspection and measurement as outlined in the Warranty and Services Guide. The pads and rotors are expected to experience greater wear than conventional brakes. Pad life may be less than 20,000 miles, and brake rotor life may be less than 50,000 miles depending on driving conditions."
So it sounds like if nothing else, the rotors shouldn't need to be replaced yet.
Despite the C.Y.A. in the brochure and on the website, it doesn't hurt to talk corporate. Lexus built their legacy on customer service; they might be willing to replace the pads as "good will" even though they technically don't have to.
"High-friction brakes are standard equipment for the front brakes only and require periodic inspection and measurement as outlined in the Warranty and Services Guide. The pads and rotors are expected to experience greater wear than conventional brakes. Pad life may be less than 20,000 miles, and brake rotor life may be less than 50,000 miles depending on driving conditions."
So it sounds like if nothing else, the rotors shouldn't need to be replaced yet.
Despite the C.Y.A. in the brochure and on the website, it doesn't hurt to talk corporate. Lexus built their legacy on customer service; they might be willing to replace the pads as "good will" even though they technically don't have to.
04-27-07, 04:46 PM
#6
Pole Position
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the tsb does not state the minimum requirement for how much pad should be left. the dealership gave me the same hassle here, but eventually gave in and replaced them. ihad 26k going into the tsb and they also turned the rotors.
04-27-07, 04:48 PM
#7
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
1. Your pads are not worn out. Minimum spec is 1mm. You have 2.36 mm left, so saying they are worn out is bunk. You have 12% pad life left or about another 2700 miles. Worn, yes; gone, no way.
2. Rotors should not be replaced or turned unless they are at/below minimum thickness or seriously scored respectively. The service manual specifically says you should grind the disc if the runout is excessive. See below.
I would ask specifically if the disc is at or below minimum thickness if they insist on replacement. If they are not, and they say they must replace the discs, I would ask why they are not following the procedure in the factory service manual. I would say the same if they insisted on turning them because turning or (more correctly) grinding them will reduce service life. If they can't prove they are warped beyond specs after being reground or below minimum thickness, I'd be asking for the number to the Bureau of Automotive Repair since they are recommending doing something against the factory's written service procedures.
2. Rotors should not be replaced or turned unless they are at/below minimum thickness or seriously scored respectively. The service manual specifically says you should grind the disc if the runout is excessive. See below.
Originally Posted by Factory Service Manual
INSPECTION
1. INSPECT PAD LINING THICKNESS
(a) Using a ruler, measure the pad lining thickness.
Standard thickness: 12.5 mm (0.492 in.)
Minimum thickness: 1.0 mm (0.039 in.)
If the pad lining thickness is less than the minimum, replace the pad.
HINT: Be sure to check wear of the front disc after replacing the brake pad with a new one.
2. INSPECT DISC THICKNESS
(a) Using a micrometer, measure the disc thickness.
Standard thickness: 30.0 mm (1.181 in.)
Minimum thickness : 27.0 mm (1.063 in.)
If the disc thickness is less than the minimum, replace the disc.
4. INSPECT DISC RUNOUT
(a) Using SST to hold the disc, tighten the disc with the 3 hub nuts.
SST 09330-00021
Torque: 103 N*m (1,050 kgf*cm, 76 ft.*lbf)
HINT: Use the SST to hold the disc while torquing the nuts.
(b) Using a dial indicator, measure the disc runout 10 mm inside (0.39 in.) the outer edge of the disc.
Maximum disc runout: 0.05 mm (0.0020 in.)
(c) If the runout exceeds the maximum value, change the installation positions of the disc and axle so that the runout will become minimal. If the runout exceeds the maximum even when the installation positions are changed, check the bearing play in the axial direction and the axle hub runout. If they are normal, and if the disc thickness is not within the specified range, grind the disc. If the disc thickness is less than the minimum, replace the disc.
1. INSPECT PAD LINING THICKNESS
(a) Using a ruler, measure the pad lining thickness.
Standard thickness: 12.5 mm (0.492 in.)
Minimum thickness: 1.0 mm (0.039 in.)
If the pad lining thickness is less than the minimum, replace the pad.
HINT: Be sure to check wear of the front disc after replacing the brake pad with a new one.
2. INSPECT DISC THICKNESS
(a) Using a micrometer, measure the disc thickness.
Standard thickness: 30.0 mm (1.181 in.)
Minimum thickness : 27.0 mm (1.063 in.)
If the disc thickness is less than the minimum, replace the disc.
4. INSPECT DISC RUNOUT
(a) Using SST to hold the disc, tighten the disc with the 3 hub nuts.
SST 09330-00021
Torque: 103 N*m (1,050 kgf*cm, 76 ft.*lbf)
HINT: Use the SST to hold the disc while torquing the nuts.
(b) Using a dial indicator, measure the disc runout 10 mm inside (0.39 in.) the outer edge of the disc.
Maximum disc runout: 0.05 mm (0.0020 in.)
(c) If the runout exceeds the maximum value, change the installation positions of the disc and axle so that the runout will become minimal. If the runout exceeds the maximum even when the installation positions are changed, check the bearing play in the axial direction and the axle hub runout. If they are normal, and if the disc thickness is not within the specified range, grind the disc. If the disc thickness is less than the minimum, replace the disc.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 04-27-07 at 04:54 PM.
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04-27-07, 04:57 PM
#9
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Old schoolers say brake discs need to be resurfaced when new pads are installed. It's crap advice unless there is a mechanical problem with the disc that can be corrected by grinding.
04-27-07, 06:56 PM
#11
Lobux and others who responded to my post, I really appreciate the feedback and very useful advice. I'll let you all know what corporate says in a few days.
I'm still in disbelief that the pads only lasted this long.
PS. On a positive note, the new Michelin PS2 tires feel great and are so quiet yet very responsive.
I'm still in disbelief that the pads only lasted this long.
PS. On a positive note, the new Michelin PS2 tires feel great and are so quiet yet very responsive.
04-27-07, 07:47 PM
#12
Instructor
Ok, so i'm sitting at the dealership now getting my new tires installed along with my first alignment. I also gave him a copy of the known TSB for alternative front brake pads. Well apparently my front pads are already worn out! I only have 20.5k miles on them. They said that with less than 6/32nds of pad left they can not cover under this TSB. They told me I have 3/32nds left. So basically I just talked to 3 different people and basically told me I would have to call corporate. I told them that 20,000 is premature and that if I had known about this TSB earlier I would have been in to replace the dusty front pads. They said they can't ship my old pads back to corporate or they would get in some kind of trouble with less than 6/32.
Oh and get this. They said the rotors are one time use only and "should" not be turned.
Anyone else have this issue and why the heck would pads wear out so fast! Even on my old EVO VIII my stock pads lasted me twice as long and I drove that thing much harder than the Lexus.
So basically I just talked to 3 different people and basically told me I would have to call corporate. I told them that 20,000 is premature and that if I had known about this TSB earlier I would have been in to replace the dusty front pads. They said they can't ship my old pads back to corporate or they would get in some kind of trouble with less than 6/32. Oh and get this. They said the rotors are one time use only and "should" not be turned.
Anyone else have this issue and why the heck would pads wear out so fast! Even on my old EVO VIII my stock pads lasted me twice as long and I drove that thing much harder than the Lexus.
04-27-07, 07:51 PM
#13
I would say roughly 40% highway. Most of my driving is suburbia Northern VA where there are lights every few blocks or few miles. I do make occasional trips to PA and MD, which are my primary hwy miles. I think the furthest I've driven in one trip is 180miles each way to DE. LOL
04-27-07, 07:56 PM
#15
How is this possible? I got my brakes redone at 25k and they turned my rotors. Even though I think they didnt. I looked at it and looked as though they did, but I dont think they did it enough...
BTW I think you should just get new aftermarkets pads.
BTW I think you should just get new aftermarkets pads.